The Truth: Why the Miami/Orton Trade Didn't Happen
by super7 on Jul 29, 2011 10:21 AM MDT
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The biggest reason that Denver & Miami couldn't lock down this deal is that Kyle Orton and his agent are savvy businessmen.
SImply put, Kyle wasn't willing to take a less than ideal contract with a team that clearly isn't willing to name him the de facto starter, especially when he has just under $9M guaranteed in 2011 and would probably win the QB job out of camp.
Orton & his agent played this perfectly. Kudos to them. Kyle put the chips on Kyle.
Those of you whining about epic fails and pointing fingers just learned an important lesson. The most important piece of any trade is the player, especially when the team that he plays for has no leverage (dictated by the marketplace's desire for that player).
Either nobody wanted Orton or Denver priced themselves out of the dicussion.
Miami wanted the player, but clearly doesn't think the player is as good as or likely to be as good as the player thinks that he is. Denver and Miami would have easily come to terms had the money aspect been agreed to by Orton and Miami. But it never was. The rest is history.
The winner in all of this: Orton
The loser in all of this: Tebow
Tebow will have to beat Orton out in an all-out QB battle that will unquestionably get ugly unless some team's QB gets folded in half in the next 3 weeks and they call for help.
In the end, this could be good news for Denver too. For those of us (self included) that thought that Denver just needed to see what it has in Tebow and let him play, chew on this: if Tebow can't keep Kyle Orton (an average starting QB - IMO) off of the field by midseason, then Tebow probably isn't average or better either.
And the world turns....
This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR
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tebow will beat him out
and then we will be stuck with his huge contract… so trade him or cut him… I don’t care
by hydrowardaddy7 on Jul 29, 2011 10:27 AM MDT reply actions 1 recs
If Tebow beats him out of camp, they'll cut him before the season begins
Denver’s not gonna win 11 games and make noise this year.
If we got stuck with $8M (or some portion of it) on the books, it wouldn’t be the one thing keeping us for the postseason.
They won't cut him. If anything they'll renegotiate his contract to be more cap friendly or they'll lower their asking price.
They are not dumb enough to let him walk for nothing at all.
Tim Tebow wears 3WM and drinks Tuscan whole milk.
by BroncoMath101 on Jul 29, 2011 10:49 AM MDT up reply actions
the cap hit would be 3.5M if we cut him
by slingshotsally on Jul 29, 2011 12:18 PM MDT up reply actions
where do you get that number?
he has no prorated bonus, and his guaranteed money and roster bonus don’t count towards the cap…
Have courage for the great sorrows of life and patience for the small ones; and when you have laboriously accomplished your daily task, go to sleep in peace.
by Jeremy Bolander on Jul 29, 2011 2:14 PM MDT up reply actions
Klis said it on the radio this morning
by slingshotsally on Jul 29, 2011 2:22 PM MDT up reply actions
interesting....
roster bonus + guaranteed cash in 2011 equals about $3.5mil….. but that doesn’t count against the cap. I’ll keep my eyes peeled for corroboration.
thanks for the heads up.
Have courage for the great sorrows of life and patience for the small ones; and when you have laboriously accomplished your daily task, go to sleep in peace.
by Jeremy Bolander on Jul 29, 2011 9:33 PM MDT up reply actions
Yes!
He is not going to help us and we need the $.
There is no I in team.
by LovedemBroncs on Jul 29, 2011 10:31 AM MDT up reply actions
Denver wouldn't do that
They’ll take talent.
And “need the money”? Is Denver poor? Are we missing out on other players? That’s the real question right? Maybe. But it doesn’t look like Denver’s going to make too many waved in FA. McGahee was a relatively inexpensive add on.
Unless Denver signs a bigtime DL, McGahee might have the biggest 2011 payday of any Bronco.
Glad you aren't our GM. That would be extremely dumb.
Tim Tebow wears 3WM and drinks Tuscan whole milk.
by BroncoMath101 on Jul 29, 2011 10:49 AM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
KO needs to grow his neckbeard back !
Just realized he has 2 chins.
Savvy move indeed for the KO camp, we’ll see how it turns out. You’re right though Super7, if TT can’t beat him out then he’s probably not franchise material anyway. Let’s hope he can.
"as in football so in life"
"Look good, play good, play good, pay good, pay good, eat good, eat good, live good, live good, die good".........Primetime
Not so savvy if the Broncos cut him
which I think they will end up doing. No reason to pay him that kind of money and piss off the fans.
There is no I in team.
If he’s cut, it won’t be until much later in training camp. Let things play out around the league. Someone may get hurt, San Fran may realize that all of their QB’s blow, etc. If Tebow wins the competition outright, then release Orton. But I highly doubt that Orton would just be released outright today before his roster bonus is due.
Low-cut blouses are looked down upon in this establishment.
They don't care
about who the fans wanna see at QB. They care about winning games.
They don’t think about anything other than winning games.
It would piss me off as a fan more if they cut him than paid him.
that would be extremely stupid. He’s a productive guy. If worse comes to worse and we can’t afford him we can still lower our asking price.
Tim Tebow wears 3WM and drinks Tuscan whole milk.
by BroncoMath101 on Jul 29, 2011 10:50 AM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
They won't cut him
He’s better than Tebow…way better…and I don’t really care for either of them.
by gepper33 on Jul 29, 2011 11:48 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Possible bad outcome for Orton
I’ll give Orton his due, he bet on himself, and he won, for now. If Orton gets benched mid season, or if Tebow outplays him in training camp and ends up as the starter with Orton 2nd string, or even if Orton has an OK year but loses as many games as he has in the previous two years, then come the end of the year, other teams may not want him and won’t give him a lucrative deal. With all the QB swapping going on right now, why is Orton the one guy who wasn’t saught after heavily? Aging vets were passed around more than him. Orton is a solid guy and he’s a solid player, but he’s not elite, and the QB is the one position you want elite or at least the potential. He’s been in the league long enough for everyone to know that if he’s not elite by now, then he won’t get it done. The only place he could get it done is if he landed with a team that had a great defense, good special teams and a great offensive supporting cast ala Tampa Bay and Baltimore in the early part of the 2000’s. Bronco country knows this and hte hope that Tebow can be that elite QB for us what is driving the fan base. If Tebow starts this year and next year and plays poorly, I guarantee the fan base will shift to get a different QB.
GO BRONCOS!!!
You got that right
it seems like all the talk about how Orton was the best QB out there but every other QB has been taken.
I know, Orton just didn’t fit for certain teams because of this or that. What else can anyone say when the best QB is not taken? I would have to think that if the best QB is not taken then just maybe and I mean just maybe he wasn’t the best QB out there..
Just imagine Manning, Payton or Eli being available. I would bet they both would be grabbed right up. I don’t think we would be hearing how they just don’t fit this team or that team…
I do beleive that we will be moving Orton along but the thought that he is the best QB out there is maybe a bit of a stretch.
He is worth a 1st, no maybe a 2nd, well maybe a 3rd, oh, we will take a 4 or 5th and a mediocore player. That just doesn’t seem to be what happens to the best QB out there… Just an observation… Hopefully a team with the right fit will suddnely need a mediocore QB with great stats and a mediocore win loss record.
Any takers????
Every other QB (except Kolb) was either cheaper than Orton or a FA. It means nothing.
Kolb was extremely overpriced. They took him based on potential which is what so many teams do in the draft when picking players as well. It may come out to burn them badly and cost Whiz his job.
Tim Tebow wears 3WM and drinks Tuscan whole milk.
by BroncoMath101 on Jul 29, 2011 11:05 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
I honestly believe that Orton is a better player than Kolb
Granted, I haven’t seen him play much, but what I did see and what I gathered from all the news and hype about Vick is that he was given every opportunity to be the starter, but he came up flat and average. Vick got his shot and stole the show. If Vick hadn’t come back, the Eagles would probably be in the same shoes as the Broncos, but without a potential player like Tebow waiting in the wings. They’d have a QB that was serviceable, but leaving something wanting. The Eagles got lucky with their QB “controversy” and made the most of it.
GO BRONCOS!!!
Yep - that's right
Unsurprisingly, Orton was overvalued at MHR.
Orton is, like I said on a post yesterday, “just a guy” to most teams. He has no likely promise of elite. And that’s why Kolb got what he got. And why Orton fell into the “just a guy” sweepstakes. The thing that hurts Kyle is also what makes him a professional in my eyes: he won’t accept a scenario where he’s obviously the ‘stop-gap’.
Tennessee, for instance, wanted Hasselbeck, because Hasselbeck doesn’t want to be a starter for the next 4 to 7 years. He wants a few more years and that’s it. VY? He’s a backup or a guy who has no choice other than to compete for a starting job. But Orton? He wants to start and wants starter money. He wants guarantees. He doesn’t want to compete with someone that, by most measurements, he’s better than.
That said, I hope that Tebow can force Denver’s hand to part with Orton for whatever compensation they must seek.
I'll actually agree with this
Orton is in the unenviable position of being a good, but not great starting QB. As such, the young hot potential superstar will always look mighty appealing… yet Orton is unquestionably better than 10+ guys starting out there.
I don’t think he was necessarily over-valued by us….he probably is WORTH a 2nd rounder. The fact we maybe can’t get it is a scenario many of us have speculated on.
Orton’s in a tough spot… and I agree that you are probably right that playing hardball on his contract is probably his correct move. If no team is gonna give him guaruntees, etc., he might-as-well stay here where he already knows the playbook, etc., see if he can outperform the young kid with goofy mechanics, and either prove himself here or to someone else for his next contract.
so he gets his biggest payday
Then he’s an FA next year, can’t blame Orton, good move for him.
Would we get a compensatory pick for Orton? Lord knows we aren’t resigning him next year
If you reply to a comment/post/fanshot of mine, I will more likely then not respond to it, unless you come off like a d-bag.
by DBroncs1414 on Jul 29, 2011 11:07 AM MDT via mobile reply actions
Can't blame Orton
Why would you take a paycut to play for an organization that started 3 different qb’s last year, did the same thing a couple years earlier, and wants to lower your pay so it’s easier to do that again next year if it wants to? Oh, and it’s head coach was left blowing in the wind for a month after last season ended. Really he’d just be taking a paycut to relive the first 6 years of his career, so he might as well try to finish out his current contract, hope he wins the job and plays the best he can until the Broncos fall out of playoff contention and switch to Tebow. Then he can choose his own team next offseason, and hopefully enter a season for the first time in his career where he’s the guaranteed starter. And if he stinks this year, he’ll still have made more than if Miami forced him to take a paycut.
by egotistical ma on Jul 29, 2011 11:51 AM MDT reply actions
I'm beginning to think this was the plan all along
I think the front office decided before free agency that they weren’t going to take any less compensation than they deemed acceptable. If they couldn’t get it, I think they are more than happy to allow Kyle to compete for his job, and if he wins, keep it.
I’d like to see Tebow what can do if given the opportunity to start but I’m beginning to think more and more that a competition is going to be the best thing for our team. Make Tebow prove in his training camp and preseason performance that he deserves to start. He wants to compete, let him.
If the team struggles during the season with Orton at the helm, I don’t think they’ll hesitate to pull him.
I know the financial issue sucks, but we have to deal with it. It may prevent us from obtaining all the help we feel that we need in the free agent market. I’m going to trust the front office’s plan even though it might not make sense to me. I might critique it, sure, but I want to wait to see the product on the field before I make too many judgments.
orton/tebow
this aligns with my sense of orton.
Orton’s at his best when his job is on the line.
Tebow’s at his best when the game is on the line.
Hes not as bad as most of you make him seem
If you look at his stats last year he averages 281 yards per game which was 4th in the league. He passed for 20 TDs with only 9 Ints. He had an 87.3 passer rtg and at one point was 4th in the league in that category. Hes great in the redzone according to Adam Shefter and Mark Schlareth. As we all know hes not that good under pressure but most QBs aren’t. Im not saying hes an elite QB but hes easily a top 15 QB he just needs a solid defense and weapons along wth some blocking and he can lead a team to the playoffs.
by Mile High Swagg on Jul 29, 2011 12:01 PM MDT reply actions
Enough QB talk...Willis/Knowshon/Lendale solid RB corp?
Every QB’s best friend is a good running game and we have not had that at all under McD. In that vain you think a rotation of those guys can get us to at least a respectable running game? Knowshon looks fired up for this season so I guess we will see if he is ready to bring it. Fox has forgotten more about running the ball than McD ever knew. so maybe he turns it on this year.
Tebow has never shied away from competition, neither has Orton
Even though I think Miami still wants him, we just need to let this all play out and not accept crumbs for a starting caliber QB.
"When Tim Tebow does pushups, he's not pushing himself up, he's pushing the world down."
"Gear down there big shifter This is the "No Bull" review man…" a total Lebowski-esque one liner from Sadaraine, whether he realizes it or not - comedic gold.
Even if Tebow does not beat KO for the starting job this year,
doesn’t mean that he can’t/won’t be the answer in the future. It all goes back to vaule, and if KO is good enough to be the starter this year then let him, if he is benched because TT is just a hair better in preseason/training camp it will drive KO’s value down. Like McG said in a different post we have sucked and will continue to suck until we prove otherwise and throwing KO away for nothing is not going to change that. KO is a starting QB in this league and even though there are many here at MHR that are willing to get rid of him doesnt change the fact that he was putting up some pretty amazing numbers last year before he got hurt, with no consistant running game and poor OL play. I love TT and am stoked to watch him play but cutting of our nose to spite our face is not the answer any of us should be looking for.
Orton is taking a gamble too though.
Fail in 2011 and he is screwed.
Learn how to dominate your league through a solid fantasy football draft tiers. A shameless plug for a fellow Broncomaniac!
I’m done with this post. Makes sense too.
But Tim is right, if Orton blows in 2011 or gets hurt (again). He’ll be looking at Matt Moore money in 2012 to be a backup.
"Well at least we picked a good year to suck" said Pat Bowlen after countersigning Von Miller's rookie contract.
sorry. down.
It’s a good post.
"Well at least we picked a good year to suck" said Pat Bowlen after countersigning Von Miller's rookie contract.
Funny reinforces everything I said 2 days ago but I am a moron
oldcoachB
"The will to win, the desire to succeed, the urge to reach your full potential...
these are the keys that will unlock the door to personal excellence."
Good post - you nailed it for Orton
He called the Broncos’ and Dolphins’ collective bluff and demanded what he knew he was owed per his 2010 deal. With few takers and little if any leverage, Denver was bold to try to trade him, but Kyle and his agent dug in, played it smart, and won the financial staring contest.
The problem with him staying in Denver is as soon as he begins to cave in 4th quarters, costing the Broncos games (assuming he doesn’t get traded before the deadline in October) he’ll be an overpayed QB watching the rest of the year from the bench.
Somehow, I do see that he’ll be traded, once another team realized what they really have in their prospective starter. In the meantime, Orton’s good play in shorts will force Tebow to get better and earn the starting job.
"All credibility, all good conscience, all evidence of truth come only from the senses." Friedrich Nietzsche
"Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great." Mark Twain
"If people never did silly things nothing intelligent would ever get done." Wittgenstein
Glad Orton's back--we need his passing ability
Orton is a better passer than Tebow is right now. Some coaches and fans who favor the
Peyton Manning style QB like Orton—can now exhale with relief.
The Denver defense has to be rebuilt to win games. Orton scored enough in a lot of the games
last season we lost.
Check out the Orton to Lloyd highlight film from last season. Bring back the AFCs #1 long bomb duo:
the reason why
Teams wouldn’t agree to a 2nd or 3rd is because everyone knows we want to start tebow. He’s totally worth the 2nd or 3rd price, but why pay that when Denver wants to dump him?
Truth and FIction
The Deal is far from Dead.
by broncofanturner on Jul 30, 2011 1:12 AM MDT reply actions
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