O-Line Has Problems with Backups

by FormerUMP on Aug 1, 2011 11:17 PM MDT

After watching a lot of slow-mo after several games on Clady, Beadles, Walton and Kuper, I think the starting O Line with probably Franklin at tackle is in very good shape. If these guys stay healthy, they can play with any defense in the division, no problem. I like this group a lot more than many fans seem too.

My issues are with the backups. It shouldn’t be that hard to improve on Stanley Daniels and Russ Hochstein. If an O Line starter is injured even for a game or two, whichever one of these guys fills in weakens the O Line considerably.

I have read a lot of comments about Beadles at LG being only marginal as a starter or not good enough to play the RT spot. That’s a lot of BS based on what I saw when I reviewed him play by play last year. He’s a very good starter. Pro-Bowl no, but solid week in and week out, yes. Versatile, yes. Smart, yes. Improving constantly, yes. Sturdy, seems to be. Can handle the new offensive system, high probability of adapting the fastest. How many O Line guys become starters in their first NFL season, much less start at two very different positions, and for little more than a million bucks a year? Someone even said Beadles was the reason the Broncos couldn’t run the ball very well. Wow, what games were they watching?

So I’m not worried about the O-Line. Every time I see Orlando Franklin, he looks like he has a mean stick up his ass. I don’t know what his momma did to him, but whatever it was it looks like it will work out fine for the Broncos. I don’t know if he’ll wind up a Pro Bowl tackle but he’ll be the ugliest nastiest looking guy in Bronco pictures for several years to come. Until I see him play at least 5 or 6 pro games, I won’t have an opinion on far he can go, but if looks could stop a defense, the Broncos could use a few more guys that look like him.

I think all the O Line guys should line up in front a mirror and take Franklin mean-ass-look lessons. If they can get that down, that alone would give the Broncos a couple of more wins next season.

I think the fans should worry more about Hochstein and Daniels than the starting five. I just don’t see anyone who can step in and keep the rushers out of the backfield if there is an injury to an O Line starter. If a team wants to win consistently, the backups are big keys.

This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR

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Comments

Nice write up

I’m glad that someone else sees this as a “problem” area. I like Shawn Murphy, Manny Ramirez, Eric Olsen and Jeff Byers as interior backups…. but Tackle depth is a gaping hole the size of Mongolia. They can’t seriously be thinking about rolling with Chris Clark and Herb Taylor, can they. Free agency isn’t over and I fully believe / expect us to bring in some competition at RT & LT. Hell, if anything, bring back Ryan Harris at a reduced rate if no one bites on him in a few weeks time. Backup Tackles are needed, and possibly even a bcakup Center…. depending upon how Byers and Olsen pan out. IMO, Hochstein and Daniels are done!!!!!

"When Tim Tebow does pushups, he's not pushing himself up, he's pushing the world down."

"Gear down there big shifter This is the "No Bull" review man…" a total Lebowski-esque one liner from Sadaraine, whether he realizes it or not - comedic gold.

by PaleHorse78 on Aug 1, 2011 11:26 PM MDT reply actions

They grabbed Adam Grant in UDFA and haven't heard much on how he is coming along but you are right about Clark and Taylor...

I think Eric Olsen coulld be a guy who could step in at guard or center and I have heard that Stanley Daniels has been working hard. hard to say at this point who looks good and looks bad. We’ll get a glimpse next weekend at Dallas…

by bfree2bronc on Aug 2, 2011 10:35 AM MDT up reply actions

This is a topic I've been pondering quite a bit as well.

People are clamoring for a CB, but to me we have 2 proven starters for sure at least. If we bring in another solid corner I think we’d have to let goody go.

In Franklin we know we have a beast run blocker, but his pass blocking history has been suspect. So if he doesn’t pan out I guess at the moment we switch Beadles back over to RT and maybe plug Franklin in at LG. I would REALLY like to see Harris back. He’s a proven commodity, would start at RT IMO and then we would have some really solid depth in Franklin. I’m thinking Harris is not coming back though unfortunately.

by Mile High ThundaDownUnda on Aug 1, 2011 11:54 PM MDT reply actions

good news!!

Ryan Harris is likely to come back, according to DP… we’ll see what the next 24 hours brings.

by tunesmith on Aug 2, 2011 1:31 AM MDT reply actions

Wow, if we get Harris back I think our O line is looking SOLID!

fingers crossed

by Mile High ThundaDownUnda on Aug 2, 2011 1:37 AM MDT up reply actions

link please?

Ding Dong the lockout's dead

by DE_BroncoFan on Aug 2, 2011 6:53 AM MDT up reply actions

never mind - I just found it

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_18598023

Ding Dong the lockout's dead

by DE_BroncoFan on Aug 2, 2011 7:01 AM MDT up reply actions

That is awesome news bro

"When Tim Tebow does pushups, he's not pushing himself up, he's pushing the world down."

"Gear down there big shifter This is the "No Bull" review man…" a total Lebowski-esque one liner from Sadaraine, whether he realizes it or not - comedic gold.

by PaleHorse78 on Aug 2, 2011 7:43 AM MDT up reply actions

This is something I touched on too

In a response to one of the “Our greatest concern” articles.

A fit and fully finctional O line as we have now is more than good enough. McDaniels did state the Beadles was more suited to the “6th lineman” role which I took to be compliment on his flexibility rather than his ability to start so I don’t understand the knock on him.

Daniels might well be better suited to a ZB scheme as he showwed decent lateral movement at times. Hoch certainly is more at home in a ZB but after that there is no real quality or substance and those two are easily replaceable also.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see lineman coming through the evolving door of Dove Valley for a while to try and strengthen the level of backup

Harris would be an ideal addition

I have so many friends some I haven't even used yet

by BlobTheMagnificent on Aug 2, 2011 2:12 AM MDT reply actions

Stanley Daniels on a % of plays was pushed into the backfield more than any other offensive lineman in the NFL last year

Get him off the roster and at least replace him with someone who can hold his ground.

With a ZB scheme you can effectively block the man in your zone by allowing him to run himself out of the play (laterally). Unfortunately if you allow him to drive you 5 yards into the backfield, he will either end up making the tackle or altering the running play such that your RB gets stopped behind the LOS. With Batiste, Daniels and Hochstein this scenario happened way too often last year. Batiste is gone. Hoch and Daniels need to be gone. Neither is a servicable backup.

Ding Dong the lockout's dead

by DE_BroncoFan on Aug 2, 2011 6:58 AM MDT up reply actions

That was last year though and we might take what his film gave us then, but he has been working hard to get better.

If we see him doing the same things in preseason then I would suspect that he will be gone.

by bfree2bronc on Aug 2, 2011 10:38 AM MDT up reply actions

Nice write up

Thanks for the breakdowns on our O line players. I believe last years issues had more to do with cohesiveness than anything and they proved it by getting better through the year.

Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.

by Sean in Pa. on Aug 2, 2011 5:11 AM MDT reply actions

The fans are very worried about our O-line backups. Perhaps this is another place we can use the waiver wire to our advantage.

I highly doubt Hoch or Daniels is a Bronco in 2011.

"Well at least we picked a good year to suck" said Pat Bowlen after countersigning Von Miller's rookie contract.

by McGeorge on Aug 2, 2011 6:04 AM MDT reply actions

We can only pray and hope

"Bombs dropping down overhead. Underground. It's instilled to want to live." -EV

by sadaraine on Aug 2, 2011 8:21 AM MDT up reply actions

I hope you're right :)

No matter who starts at QB, we will be 8-8 or better (8-2-11)

"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."
John Adams

by Broncotodd on Aug 2, 2011 9:10 AM MDT up reply actions

With our OLine, cohesiveness and continuity is the key.

Playing together knowing one anothers signals, line talk and moves will help this group more than anything else and that’ what they suffered from in the past.

by bfree2bronc on Aug 2, 2011 10:41 AM MDT reply actions

Excellent post - highly rec'd

Also, thoughtful and insightful comments all the way down. The only thing I can add is that we have some inherent flexability. Some guys can play two or three positions and Kuper has played all five. I like our starting line up and let the competition setttle the back ups. I love that Harris is likely to return, whether in a starting or back up role.

GO BRONCOS!!!

It all starts in the trenches - HT 11/11/08
Leave the hateful vitriol to the uninformed - HT 3/16/09

by firstfan on Aug 2, 2011 12:16 PM MDT reply actions

Madden

I certainly don’t put much stock in the Madden ratings, but I know some people on here do.

If you look at O Line numbers Clady finished first, but the reason he finished first were categories like awareness, agility and speed. If you compared footwork, blocking strength, passing strength, impact, run block, pass block and toughness. The four top guys Clady, Harris, Kuper and Beadles were almost exactly equal. Beadles lost out on the speed and agility measures, and Harris is gone.

Like I said Madden is not my go to authority on anything, but it is interesting that they rated Walton and Franklin much lower than Beadles, Clady and Kuper.

Since Beadles is so slow, has such poor agility, and can’t see sh*t, I wonder how he blocks so effectively on both the rush and pass.

Too bad about Harris, but I do think he needed a fresh start. One year contracts are major gambles. If he gets injured or performs poorly, it could cost him a lot of money—or worse his career. It’s happened before.

by FormerUMP on Aug 3, 2011 8:19 PM MDT reply actions

Another Poor Post on the O-line Help!

EFX made some investment into our OLine with a 2nd round pick. Early indications is Franklin will be a starter and can move bodies but might not be NFL par in pass blocking. Walton and Beadles are now a year older but signs are that they are not advancing to average yet. We are moving back to our zone blocking system that served us so well in the past and we invested some at running back. So realistically, it would seem our run game might move from pitiful to below average. I wish my expectations would be higher but I think this is a realistic expectation.

Early indications are Franklin will be a starter and can move bodies but might not be NFL par in pass blocking. What early indications

. Franklin hasn’t played a down yet in an NFL game. This is crappy parroting of some sports blogger garbage. Franklin may have to start because Harris is gone. But until he has at least 3 regular season games in the book, there are NO early indications of anything.

Walton and Beadles are now a year older but signs are that they are not advancing to average yet.

This statement really gets to me. Anybody listening to Mike McCoy. Fox didn’t make him the offensive coordinator because he’s an idiot. He would laugh if someone read this statement to him.

by FormerUMP on Aug 4, 2011 5:25 PM MDT reply actions

Beadles had some good games espicially against KC

But he was in no way solid throughout the season. We had a write up about this after the season and it was well documented which games he struggled. Walton was horrific in the first few games. He did fine against the Texans and Chargers but he is not “Solid”. I am still concerned about his play.

Walton, Beadles and probably Orlando Franklin are our weakest links on our offense at this point judging from last years play. Franklin is simply there because he is a rookie and chances are that he will make mistakes, however he has much better physical tools and potential than the other o-lineman. My concerns still lie with Walton and Beadles. I feel like they can developed, but they aren’t naturally gifted and its not clear how much they developed from last year.

by ShyandObese on Aug 4, 2011 5:54 PM MDT reply actions

Analyzing Beadles

Beadles had some very good games like the one you mentioned with KC. Sure he made some mistakes. He was a ROOKIE.

There is a huge difference between a 1st year pro (rookie) and their second year.

Both Walton and Beadles spent a lot of time working out in Denver during the off season. They are going to surprise a lot of people. Beadles worked on speed, lateral movement and strength.

I think there is too much speculation on how they’ll play their second year and they haven’t even played in one regular season game yet. Just like in Franklin’s case, no one will know anything of any relevance until 3 games into the season.

There’s going to be a lot of self fulling prophecies in the minds of fans. It appears that a lot of them have already decided how Walton, Beadles and Franklin will play, and regardless of how they actually perform, in the fan’s minds they will have played exactly as projected.

by FormerUMP on Aug 4, 2011 9:03 PM MDT reply actions

Original Point

My original point in my first post was simply that the starting O-Line isn’t as big an issue as some fans believe it’s going to be. The problems are going to come if any one of the starting five gets injured. Then they’ll be problems.

It’s almost a certainty that during a long season at least one or two of the O line guys will have injuries that cause them to miss games.

The starting five is good enough to get the job done, but not good enough to pick up the slack left from the members of the 2nd unit.

by FormerUMP on Aug 4, 2011 9:06 PM MDT reply actions