Musing on Tim Tebow: Is He Really Into The Game?
by 9798 on Aug 18, 2011 9:43 AM MDT
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Look, few things would make me happier than were Tim Tebow (I'm a Christian, so I am totally biased) to succeed as a NFL quarterback for the Denver Broncos, and not just as any NFL quarterback, but as a top-tier quarterback. However, I keep seeing or hearing, both here and elsewhere, that his passes are inconsistent, inaccurate, wobbly, and that he has a slow release. Plus the fact that he wasn't in a pro-style offense at Florida has also seemed to hinder his development so far. Maybe it's not the worst thing that he waits until he's ready. That's what Aaron Rodgers and Philip Rivers had to do.
Passing and throwing are absolutely crucial for a successful QB in this league, so maybe Tebow hasn't put enough time into his throwing game yet. After all, he wrote a book during the off-season, he's seen at golf events, and he's involved in his foundation and with other charities, so maybe he needs to focus more on actually learning the nuances of his job...instead of on some of these other pursuits. I mean, come on, an autobiography from a 23-year-old? Shouldn't this have waited a few years? Couldn't the time collaborating with his coauthor have been better spent, considering that his throwing game needs improvement?
I believe that if Tebow puts his mind completely into developing his game, he'll be the type of QB that many of us are hoping for, but I just don't think that, at this time, he's as focused as he should be. My opinion.
This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR
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Well in a lockout, there wasn't much he could do.
He did try to improve as seen here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AsbCFNauAw
I don’t hold the fact he played Golf for a few days against him.
The good news is there is no pressure on him to start this year and he has Elway as a mentor.
It wasn't him Charlie, it was you. Remember that night in the Garden you came down to my dressing room and said, "Kid, this ain't your night. We're going for the price on Wilson." Ya remember that? 'This ain't your night.' My night I could of taken Wilson apart. ~ Brando aka Terry Malloy
Don't know how good of a teacher Elway is
But if John can pass on even 10% of what he learned the Tebow is HOF bound. Give the kid time.
Batman and Superman both had training periods.
And were trained by Liam Neeson and Brando.
are those good comparisons?
It wasn't him Charlie, it was you. Remember that night in the Garden you came down to my dressing room and said, "Kid, this ain't your night. We're going for the price on Wilson." Ya remember that? 'This ain't your night.' My night I could of taken Wilson apart. ~ Brando aka Terry Malloy
by Zac Man on Aug 18, 2011 11:04 AM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
as a mentor? yes. Acting wise? No even close.
even though Liam Neeson is probably in the Top 25 actors alive today. Brando is GOAT.
It wasn't him Charlie, it was you. Remember that night in the Garden you came down to my dressing room and said, "Kid, this ain't your night. We're going for the price on Wilson." Ya remember that? 'This ain't your night.' My night I could of taken Wilson apart. ~ Brando aka Terry Malloy
you may notice my signature is from that scene too.
It wasn't him Charlie, it was you. Remember that night in the Garden you came down to my dressing room and said, "Kid, this ain't your night. We're going for the price on Wilson." Ya remember that? 'This ain't your night.' My night I could of taken Wilson apart. ~ Brando aka Terry Malloy
it was uploaded on april 7, 2011.
It wasn't him Charlie, it was you. Remember that night in the Garden you came down to my dressing room and said, "Kid, this ain't your night. We're going for the price on Wilson." Ya remember that? 'This ain't your night.' My night I could of taken Wilson apart. ~ Brando aka Terry Malloy
looks like I never read past the first sentance
in the description.
still fun to watch.
It wasn't him Charlie, it was you. Remember that night in the Garden you came down to my dressing room and said, "Kid, this ain't your night. We're going for the price on Wilson." Ya remember that? 'This ain't your night.' My night I could of taken Wilson apart. ~ Brando aka Terry Malloy
I'm an athiest, and I'm totally biased as well
Nothing would make me happier than for Tebow to succeed with the Broncos. And I wouldn’t worry about him finding time to write a book and do other things in the offseason. The kid has a major work ethic, and I’m sure he outdid most, if not all, of the competition. There’s just a point where if you continue throwing the ball, you’re only going to hurt your arm though. And you also can’t focus on work 100 percent of the time no matter what you do. That just makes life miserable, and could lead to a breakdown that would be much worse than taking a day or two off every now and then.
None of us go out and play for stats. You just do whatever you can to help the team out. -- Eddie Royal
by Poster_Formerly_Known_As_Royal_Fan on Aug 18, 2011 10:15 AM MDT reply actions 4 recs
Well said.
"It is better to be rougly right than precisely wrong." - John Maynard Keynes
"Excellence can be obtained; if you care more than others think is wise…risk more than others think is safe…dream more than others think is practical…expect more than others think is possible." - Anonymous Author
by Alexander Wall on Aug 19, 2011 4:36 AM MDT up reply actions
Books need a lot of lead time.
I really wish people would get off the book thing; saying he wrote a book during the offseason rather than training. The fact is, if you research or know anything about the book industry, that getting a book to print takes at LEAST 6 months, usually a year or two in lead time. That means that the earliest he could have finished the book was 6 months before it was published, more likely a year or more. If you think about it, the book didn’t talk about the Bronco games he played in. That’s because it had been written BEFORE those games were played. He likely finished it up around the time of training camp last year or early in the season. Yeah, I think it’s a little funny to have an auto-biography at 23 but there was demand for it obviously (just look at the sales) so why shouldn’t he try to make money while he can? After all in the NFL any play could be your last, or he might not make it. Then there wouldn’t be demand. Gotta strike while the iron’s hot.
As another poster said as well, focusing 100% on work is the best way to burn out. Or as I used to say when I taught martial arts ‘The best way to teach someone nothing, is to show them everything.’ You have to have balance. It’s obvious the kid put in work because he does look improved. The trick is that he has to show consistent improvement. Then he should be fine. If Tebow doesn’t make it, I’ll move on as well. I’m just hoping right now that he does make it, and I enjoy watching him play. No matter what people say, he just does not look like the players I’ve seen in the past that played terribly. Seriously, can you say he looks worse than Chad Henne or many of the guys that start for teams currently? If you can, fine..but I don’t see it. I see a guy who needs to improve as all young QB’s do, but who is already dangerous and has the potential to be really good. What he needs is the break, along with hard work and improvement. Cam Newton will get every opportunity and break there is. If HE doesn’t make it, it will never be for lack of opportunity. Tebow’s situation is different. He won’t get the breaks and opportunities, at least not many if at all. He’s going to have to fight and bite, scratch and claw his way into the starting lineup apparently. If he makes it, he’ll be better off for that fight. I just want to see him get the shot again like at the end of last year, and see if he’ll be able to do it or not. Again, if not, everyone moves on.
by Sinthor on Aug 19, 2011 10:13 PM MDT up reply actions 3 recs
You're Yoda.
‘The best way to teach someone nothing, is to show them everything.’
That’s a great quote, man.
Truth shall be known.
by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Aug 20, 2011 11:00 AM MDT up reply actions
You have to be
the water, not the rock. Excellent post. Rec’d.
Some days, you're the pigeon. Some days, you're the statue.
Reports that he has regressed from last training camp to this one would validate your concerns, I would think. Count me as another person who wants him to succeed. But I too have serious doubts. I’d rather have someone involved in a foundation than someone out partying their brains out during the offseason, but maybe he should have spent more time working on his game?
We see a wonderful sun-soaked city nestled at the foot of the Rocky Mountains. Enos sees nickels and dimes.
by Bob in Boulder on Aug 18, 2011 10:18 AM MDT reply actions
What does being Christian have to do with anything?
I think that is the crux of the problem with Tebow. This is football, not church.
Some days, you're the pigeon. Some days, you're the statue.
It is a part of his identity and people see him as "one of our own"
People pay special attention to those they identify with. Always more interest in how “our guys” are doing.
I use to hate Kurt Warner, found he was a Christian, now he's the GQBOAT!!
It wasn't him Charlie, it was you. Remember that night in the Garden you came down to my dressing room and said, "Kid, this ain't your night. We're going for the price on Wilson." Ya remember that? 'This ain't your night.' My night I could of taken Wilson apart. ~ Brando aka Terry Malloy
It's kind of funny because I have never seen Tebow try to push his faith onto to others.
It’s the media that bring to the attention of his beliefs, whether they are right or wrong. It’s the world against Christianity and they love to ‘crucify’ that like they did 2000 years ago, only on a different front.
by bfree2bronc on Aug 18, 2011 1:36 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed.
Even Jesus didn’t try to push his faith on others. He simply offered to all and spent time with those who chose HIM. Which is why the religious people of the day HATED Jesus. Cause He spent all his time with prostitutes, gamblers, thugs, drunks, and outcasts. Because they were the people that wanted to hear what he had to say. Why waste his time trying to explain something to people that have closed ears on the matter to begin with?
I am a believer myself and CANNOT STAND the Bible “thumping” churches, and the people that stand on the corner trying to pound the scripture into passers-by. It just doesn’t work that way. Those people think that THEY save people… but ONLY Christ saves people. Believers can only SHOW Christ to people; and following them around telling them they’re going to go to hell IS NOT the way to do it. If they actually spent even ten minutes studying Christ’s life they would see that He never did it that way.
Anyways…. I should shut up before this turns into a religios debate. I HATE religion. But I LOVE God! .
"It is better to be rougly right than precisely wrong." - John Maynard Keynes
"Excellence can be obtained; if you care more than others think is wise…risk more than others think is safe…dream more than others think is practical…expect more than others think is possible." - Anonymous Author
by Alexander Wall on Aug 19, 2011 4:43 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well said Mr. Wall...well said...
"as in football so in life"
"Look good, play good, play good, pay good, pay good, eat good, eat good, live good, live good, die good".........Primetime
I am going with Leroy’s Log for this one. In a well written post he says:
Tim is at the conscious competence stage overall. Contrasting with Brady Quinn, Tebow was accurate that day and his reads and progressions were there. I saw a patient qb who moved in the pocket well.
I am an optimist so I choose to believe bcole23 who was at training camp a few days ago and feels Tebow has made great strides.
"I get sick when I hear athletes say I’m not a role model" "Yes you are. You’re just not a very good one." -Tim Tebow
by MTBroncosFan on Aug 18, 2011 10:50 AM MDT reply actions 3 recs
I don't buy it.
Tebow seems to be very focused and will likely continue to be this year as he waits for his opportunity. Rest is just as important in training as the physical training itself.
"If we cannot find a way, we will make one." -Hannibal
by AvalancheRescueDog on Aug 18, 2011 11:32 AM MDT reply actions
I am not sure he "regressed"
What I noticed in the game against the Cowboys, was he doesn’t seem to have progressed much from last year (IMO).
He wasn’t as accurate as you would like, he made one read and if that guy wasn’t open he wanted to run, and he seemed more comfortable out of the gun, versus under center (just my opinion so flame away)..
I am not sure if he will every be the prototypical QB that everyone wants, maybe he can progress into that, but he seems to be at least one more season away from being where he needs to be to be an effective starting QB in this league.
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun" - Ash from Army of Darkness
"H.I., you're young and you got your health, what you want with a job?" - Evelle from Raising Arizona
"It happens sometimes. People just explode. Natural causes." - Agent Rogersz from Repoman
Well, let's look at it
he made one read and if that guy wasn’t open he wanted to run
Well, that can’t be true. He only ran three times.
1st run on 1st and 10 – Tebow got 2 yards ( Lance Ball on 2nd and 8 was stuffed at the line of scrimmage) Called play
2nd run on 3rd and 6 – Tebow got 4 yards but there was an illegal shift penalty on the Broncos, replay the down. (.47 second mark)
3rd run on 3rd and 16 – Tebow got 13 yards of the 16 (2:08 second mark)
Youtube of Denver Broncos v. Dallas Cowboys preseason
Out of the gun…Orton was out of the shotgun alot also.
Tebow has definitely shown improvement. Tebow has the preseason to demonstrate whether he is ready to start and develop without a drop off in win production from an average Orton.
"There's only one person who carries the ball right here..."
Add in a couple more ...
He sprinted to the left on a third down play, believe he threw incomplete but there was a holding call on the play. This was not a designed play – no protection outside the pocket, the pocket was intact when he left.
Then of course there was that tripple penalty call.
I agree that the lockout probably hurt Tebow more that any other player. I do think he is in the ideal situation to sit back for a year and enjoy the mentoring of one of the greatest ever to play the game.
Yeah he does have that...
"I get sick when I hear athletes say I’m not a role model" "Yes you are. You’re just not a very good one." -Tim Tebow
by MTBroncosFan on Aug 18, 2011 2:14 PM MDT up reply actions
Can't add that first one...
If it was an incomplete pass…can’t add that right?
The triple penalty call can be added to the list. But since Tebow had just scored a touchdown which was negated by a holding penalty and he was on his final down to score with the clock winding down and nobody open until he ran side to side…it doesn’t support, “the one read, then run” argument against Tebow.
"There's only one person who carries the ball right here..."
Wrong
If it were a designed roll out then you could – he was naked and about to be burried by both the CB and a LB. The O Line had formed a good pocket and the nearest defender was more than three yards from him with a blocker in between them – the run attempt was aborted by a last minute uncatchable pass – otherwise a drop for a loss.
On the triple penalty what you should be looking at is not the situation but the reaction – did Tebow go through his progression? The answer to both of the situations I list is that he took to his feet before going through his progression. In both cases he had the protection to do his progression but did not feel comfortable and took off. He has great faith in his individual ability – he needs to develop the faith in his coaches and team mates. These are correctable first preseason type mistakes – they serve not to disqualify Tebow from consideration, but are illustrative of the work he still has before him.
Not really.
That wasn’t a run attempt. Tebow scrambled to avoid pressure and threw out of bounds.
Q2 2:00: Tebow scrambles to avoid pressure and fires a pass out of bounds before he’s hit
The triple penalty play can be added to the list as previously stated. So there were 3 runs by Tebow which weren’t called plays:
2nd run on 3rd and 6 – Tebow got 4 yards but there was an illegal shift penalty on the Broncos, replay the down.
3rd run on 3rd and 16 – Tebow got 13 yards of the 16
Triple penalty play -
Tebow’s 13 yard run, he went through his progression reads before picking up the 13 yards. So, only two runs that one could argue Tebow was quick to run. On the first he picked up more yards than the running backs were getting per play. On the penalty play, I think coach Fox covered that one.
Looking at all the plays, Tebow is going through his progression reads and not running first.
"There's only one person who carries the ball right here..."
????
The question was – does Tebow make one read and then run. So I offer this example of exactly that. Protection was intact, had not broken down. This did not have any of the appearance of a designed roll out or sprint out – he was totally unprotected out there and had defenders baring down on him. It is very true this was not a statistical run attempt, but it certainly did involve Tebow “running” and after only one read.
The first Tebow run had all the appearances of a called running play.
I disagree on the 13 yard run. Not going to fire up the TEVO, but recall a fairly quick decission to run. The Tripple penalty play was prime example of his happy feet.
The point here is not to slam Tebow – He was a great college player and will become a great NFL QB. The NFL is so far above and beyond college that you cannot expect Tebow to step out of Florida and into a starting role on a competitive team in the NFL. A little honest observation quickly reveals those areas he needs to improve in … then come Saturday we can see if he is making progress and rejoice in that progress – if not maybe the following week.
Which Manning do you want? Your choice is Archie or Peyton. Put him in now and you get Archie – let Fox and Elway do their thing and you end up with Peyton.
Nope
That was in no way an example of one read then run. Tebow scrambled to avoid the rush and threw the ball away as the Denver Bronco’s blog described:
Q2 2:00: Tebow scrambles to avoid pressure and fires a pass out of bounds before he’s hit
Tebow went through his progressions on the 13 yard run. No need to fire up the Tevo you can see online. The link was provided above:
3rd run on 3rd and 16 – Tebow got 13 yards of the 16 (2:08 second mark)
Youtube of Denver Broncos v. Dallas Cowboys preseason
It really doesn’t matter whether your point is to slam Tebow or not. No one is denying that Tebow has areas for improvement, including his progression reads and staying in the pocket. But to make blanket statements totally defining his performance in the Cowboys preseason opener in terms of “happy feet” “one read, run first” as the pervasive examples of his performance is not accurate when you actually examine the plays from his four drives.
Tebow had a solid performance in the game. And as you say, his errors are indeed correctable preseason mistakes that do not disqualify him from consideration. We agree he can exponentially improve as he develops.
It’s not about a choice between Archie or Peyton. Quarterbacks learn progression reads, timing, touch, being comfortable in the pocket all from playing with live bullets not from watching another QB on the bench.
you cannot expect Tebow to step out of Florida and into a starting role on a competitive team in the NFL
Tebow already did that last season.
"There's only one person who carries the ball right here..."
Talk about a Tebow apologist
I knew we would see this day. Talk about bias.
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
My ship finally came in, but it was the Kobayashi Maru.
Follow me on Twitter @MHR_KaptainKirk
Thanks for the balance.
You can be dumb... that's ok! There are many dumb people.
You can be an a$$hole... that's ok! There are many of these as well.
Unfortunately you cannot be both...
Ok... prove me wrong.
For those who may misread...
Equal weight on the opposite end = balance.
You can be dumb... that's ok! There are many dumb people.
You can be an a$$hole... that's ok! There are many of these as well.
Unfortunately you cannot be both...
Ok... prove me wrong.
Pot meet kettle
"as in football so in life"
"Look good, play good, play good, pay good, pay good, eat good, eat good, live good, live good, die good".........Primetime
Kaptain Kirk
Your own bias is so blatant that you actually dare to call names thinking yourself to be completely unbiased and ignoring a substantive discussion on plays.
"There's only one person who carries the ball right here..."
Ok..enough with the amateur analysis.
and this is in no way stated to defend Tebow but…anyone who thinks they can tell how many reads a QB makes before he runs or throws the ball away is delusional. Do you honestly think that you can tell from watching ? I’m guessing that you think a read happens when a QB turns his head…right ? WRONG..QB’s make reads all the time with no perceptible change of head position. Here’s a simple exercise; sitting perfectly still with your head at 12:00 and without moving it roll your eyes to the right and then to the left, how much of the field do you think you can see? Most of it right? Keep in mind this doesnt even factor the pre snap reads and the reads that most QB’s make within the 1st second after the snap as they’re taking their first 2 steps into the pocket. Many people think that you can determine the progression and numbers of reads by counting the number of times a QB moves his head while in the pocket….this simply isn’t true.
"as in football so in life"
"Look good, play good, play good, pay good, pay good, eat good, eat good, live good, live good, die good".........Primetime
Well, he ought to be able to figure out where to pass the ball when he has 8 seconds to do it
and then runs.
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
My ship finally came in, but it was the Kobayashi Maru.
Follow me on Twitter @MHR_KaptainKirk
Huh???
I’m guessing you’re just too tired to put much thought into that reply…but yes , if A QB has 8 seconds to read a D he oughta be able to find an open receiver. Care to elaborate?
"as in football so in life"
"Look good, play good, play good, pay good, pay good, eat good, eat good, live good, live good, die good".........Primetime
that's what he has been doing all Training Camp
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
My ship finally came in, but it was the Kobayashi Maru.
Follow me on Twitter @MHR_KaptainKirk
Generalization
Pretty sure that’s not all he’s been doing all camp. I know that he has from time to time when there is time and no immediate open receiver however that’s kinda the point of practice,similar to BB players running half speed layup drills..
"as in football so in life"
"Look good, play good, play good, pay good, pay good, eat good, eat good, live good, live good, die good".........Primetime
Analysis
I do not assume to be able to see beyond a shadow of a doubt that Tebow made all the reads on the 13 yard run. I do see that he didn’t just run for it , stood in the pocket and surveyed the field. That is clear. And that was the point of contention in this particular discussion.
"There's only one person who carries the ball right here..."
I don't care how Tebow throws the ball, that his deal...
All I want is for the Broncos to be successful and regain the respect we’ve lost. If that’s with Tebow and his somewhat unorthodox ways then so be it.
Ok...man these posts are getting old....let tebow be Tebow...he is not a proto typical QB so to compare him to one is ridiculous...
He has so much more upside than any normal pocket passing QB that all we need is a half creative HC and OC to be able to use him right.
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
Is it Free Agency yet? Wake me up when it starts!
by boydy2669 on Aug 18, 2011 1:02 PM MDT reply actions 2 recs
By the end of Next year
Assuming that Tebow’s work ethic and Elway’s personal involvement pay off – I would expect to see much more of Tebow’s athletic ability factoring into called plays. But with Fox at the helm they will be structured and fairly conservative. Blitzes will be met with moving pockets, roll outs will have run options built in (a la the college option play). You will see many of the things that Dan Reeves did with Elway resurface. If a defense does not keep a LB behind the line as a ‘spy’ then there will be a designed play to exploit the open area. These are a few of the dimension that are open for Tebow that neither and Orton nor a Quinn give us. Elway can give McCoy and Fox the ground level prospective on how they worked in game situations and what the reads were. But it all begins with Tebow showing at least a minimal mastery of the pocket so that DCs have to respect his ability from there.
Yep...well I saw plenty of plays from the pocket last season...in pre season and games in the last weeks of the season.....he is NEVER going to be a pure pocket passer. And to make him one is a waste of the God given talents he has...
Thats why I struggle to take seriously anyone who rags on him for being a good runner. He needs to get better in pocket? Sure. And he wants to….on the other side of the coin, I hear no-one saying that Orton or Quinn need to improve their athleticism or their ability to make plays out of nothing. Where are those criticisms? On thats right……we all know that will never happen….Tebow CAN improve his pocket play but Quinn and Orton will NEVER be able to begin to learn top make plays from nothing as they dont have that athlicism. Forgive me if I am colored skeptical!
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
Is it Free Agency yet? Wake me up when it starts!
+1
"I get sick when I hear athletes say I’m not a role model" "Yes you are. You’re just not a very good one." -Tim Tebow
+1 on boydy's post I meen
"I get sick when I hear athletes say I’m not a role model" "Yes you are. You’re just not a very good one." -Tim Tebow
by MTBroncosFan on Aug 18, 2011 1:11 PM MDT up reply actions
I also believe Elway needs to lay off the tweeting
and spend more time developing his football organization.
"I'll always use the negativity as more motivation to work even harder and become even stronger."
August 4, 2011
And that loose lipped John Fox
He needs to stop talking with the media so much and get into some of those drills at practice. Maybe yell a little more, drop an F-bomb or two. If he is so distracted, maybe he can get a nice hoodie to wear. How about we fans all buy coach fox a nice grey hoodie….
by Da Bum on Aug 18, 2011 2:32 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
it takes 5 seconds to tweet.
and I don’t think he even tweets enough.
It wasn't him Charlie, it was you. Remember that night in the Garden you came down to my dressing room and said, "Kid, this ain't your night. We're going for the price on Wilson." Ya remember that? 'This ain't your night.' My night I could of taken Wilson apart. ~ Brando aka Terry Malloy
by Zac Man on Aug 18, 2011 2:33 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Absolutely
None of us go out and play for stats. You just do whatever you can to help the team out. -- Eddie Royal
by Poster_Formerly_Known_As_Royal_Fan on Aug 18, 2011 2:43 PM MDT up reply actions
Pretty sure GoGators15 said this obviously enough to show it is sarcasm...
"It is better to be rougly right than precisely wrong." - John Maynard Keynes
"Excellence can be obtained; if you care more than others think is wise…risk more than others think is safe…dream more than others think is practical…expect more than others think is possible." - Anonymous Author
by Alexander Wall on Aug 19, 2011 4:48 AM MDT up reply actions
Guys, it was sarcasm
"I'll always use the negativity as more motivation to work even harder and become even stronger."
August 4, 2011
Wow...
It’s a sad day when that one wasn’t obvious…
None of us go out and play for stats. You just do whatever you can to help the team out. -- Eddie Royal
by Poster_Formerly_Known_As_Royal_Fan on Aug 18, 2011 3:53 PM MDT up reply actions
You guys are punch drunk on Tebow!
Why don’t you come over to the other side!
We're on the same side the way I see it
We all want what’s the best for the Broncos, we just have different opinions on what that is.
None of us go out and play for stats. You just do whatever you can to help the team out. -- Eddie Royal
by Poster_Formerly_Known_As_Royal_Fan on Aug 18, 2011 6:07 PM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
^ This
The beauty of MHR! We vent, argue, and proclaim greatness and smartness to our fellow bloggers. Thank goodness because nobody else is listening. -
too lazy. and no one even mentioned Tebow dude.
we were actually on a different subject for once.
It wasn't him Charlie, it was you. Remember that night in the Garden you came down to my dressing room and said, "Kid, this ain't your night. We're going for the price on Wilson." Ya remember that? 'This ain't your night.' My night I could of taken Wilson apart. ~ Brando aka Terry Malloy
Much respect 9798 -
I’m a Christian too..
As for Tebow, love the kid; not thrilled to see him in Denver.
I think he can be a force, given time and the right circumstances.
Profile Image courtesy of 'christoffer'..
by chiefsfan62 on Aug 18, 2011 11:09 PM MDT via mobile reply actions
It's a cliche, but true: "only time will tell"
And to be perfectly clear, I want Tebow to succeed in Denver, but since he was drafted by McDaniels, who’s already been fired, the odds are tough. Tougher still when factoring in his throwing mechanics and not having played in a pro-style system in college. If the Broncos let Tebow go without even trying to put the pieces around this kid to exploit his God-given talents, then that will be a shame. Everyone here should know how the Broncos built around Elway, and many here probably know how Florida’s offense was built for Tebow’s strengths, and both teams had success beyond their wildest dreams. The payoffs are astronomical, and worth doing, in my opinion.
Honestly, I don't care if the dude is a Christian or a Muslim
If he’s black or white, if he’s tall or short.
All I care about is if this guy is going to get us more than 4 wins.
I am of the camp that you don’t write an autobiography when you’re only two years older than myself. Sure you’ve done more, but there’s no wisdom to it.
Just win us some games man, if it’s Tebus, awesome, if it’s Orton, cool, if it’s Quinn, awesome.
Just win some games.
POP POP!!!
by Tollyvolley127 on Aug 18, 2011 11:56 PM MDT reply actions 2 recs
I almost agree
I want him to be TALL!
;)
The beauty of MHR! We vent, argue, and proclaim greatness and smartness to our fellow bloggers. Thank goodness because nobody else is listening. -
If you're going to call Tebow "Tebus"...
then can we call Orton “Saton”?
Truth shall be known.
by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Aug 20, 2011 11:05 AM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
I don’t get how a few days playing golf and a few TV appearances equate not taking the off season seriously. I suspect that if Tebow had locked himself in a HS gym for the last few months, we’d be criticizing him for not taking a break.
The reality is this…Tebow needed coaches. There are countless articles about his workouts during the offseason. This article actually made me wonder if there wasn’t something a little wrong with Tebow. Like maybe he needs to relax a little bit.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/15033189/players-locked-out-but-broncos-tebow-locked-in
Tebow even flew Lloyd and Gaffney to Florida to practice with him. Maybe he could have hired a coach or gotten Brett Favre to help him out. But at the end of the day if that coach you hired tells you X and you head to TC and coaches want Y, well you kind of have a problem. I think Tebow did the best he could giving the lock out.
As far as bashing him for writing a book at 23 - really? So what? He has accomplished a lot. There was a market for it. People wanted to read it. Good for him.
Also the book deal was announced last year— during the season. Giving how books work I imagine the actually interviewing Whitaker did with Tebow took place during the end of the season into January. At some point there would have been some reading over the finished manuscript, follow-ups ect., but at the end of the day a few books signing close to home in Fla. and Denver probably was the extent of Tebow’s time commitment over the last few months.
by SubwayAlumni on Aug 19, 2011 9:35 AM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Let's see
Tebow had the same amount of time off as Brady Quinn right?
Brady went and studied with a Quarterback coach (Paul Hackett) during the lockout. To me that shows drive and commitment. For a guy who dreams of becoming a great QB in the NFL, does underwear modeling and book signing have any effect on getting better? It’s not like Tebow couldn’t afford it.
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
My ship finally came in, but it was the Kobayashi Maru.
Follow me on Twitter @MHR_KaptainKirk
by KaptainKirk on Aug 19, 2011 1:10 PM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
If he was doing it on company time
it would be a problem. You said yourself it was their time off. I don’t see what the big deal is. I think it’s pretty easy to see your bias against Tebow. Don’t be one of the haters, KK, you are better than that.
Some days, you're the pigeon. Some days, you're the statue.
KK has never liked Tebow, nor will he....and thats his prerogative....hes a good man....we are just poles apart on our opinions at QB.
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
Is it Free Agency yet? Wake me up when it starts!
I have liked Tebow starting from that moment when he and his family and friends were filmed that he was becoming a Denver Bronco
so I am the very antithesis of KK in that respect. I got excited when I saw Tim Tebow just get a chance to play some football last year, and I got really excited when he got to be the starting quarterback for those last three games.
Likewise I was not unhappy with the Orton trade talks, and I was very dissappointed when those trade talks died down and learned that Orton would be given the nod over Tebow. Very dissappointed.
The original Subject of this FanPost was “Devil’s Advocate,” through several edits and rewrites, and then, because of some serious overthinking the Subject Text (as a Christian), I dropped it. Regardless, that was my main objective…as well as to bring up the other points to see if I was alone in perceiving these issues as what could possibly be hindering him from having already started developing his A-game.
Besides, I think a forum like this is not only a place to share facts and figures, but it’s also a great tool for one to share an opinion or two, and then to find out what others might be thinking.
Still, “Devil’s Advocate” was pretty key here (or the general idea could have been…had I been just a little wiser).
It's not a zero sum game Kirk
To assume that anyone lacks drive or commitment because they played golf or filmed a commercial is simply flawed logic. I’m pretty sure that no QB spends every waking moment practicing it’s not possible and would actually be counter productive to attempt.
"as in football so in life"
"Look good, play good, play good, pay good, pay good, eat good, eat good, live good, live good, die good".........Primetime
No but he has said himself that he is driven to be the best
Coming into Camp showing no improvement makes me ask that question. If others can improve, why can’t Tebow? Personally, he can do whatever he wants to with his free time, but to improve, they have this thing called practice. You can’t just get better by doing nothing. I merely point out that Quinn decided to do something about it this offseason and Tebow could have done the same thing, but didn’t. People keep pointing out falsely that Tebow is the hardest worker in the world, but guess what, every player in the NFL is a hard worker or they won’t have a job. I don’t care how many passes he threw this offseason, if he didn’t improve then he was practicing wrong and all he did was wear out his arm. A tired arm produced wobbly passes.
And those who keep saying that Orton sucks should consider that according to the Broncos coaching staff, he is the best QB on the roster. If Orton sucks, then figure out where Tebow sits.
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
My ship finally came in, but it was the Kobayashi Maru.
Follow me on Twitter @MHR_KaptainKirk
Your assumtion that he came into camp showing no improvement shows a limited understanding of what improvement is KK
I’ll give you an example. Everyone agrees that TT needed to work on the mechanics of taking snaps from center and making his 3, 5 and 7 step drops right? By every report i’ve read that part of his game has shown improvement..agree?
So now move on to the next critique;making reads and going through his progressions: As I posted above, some here, including you apparently, believe that you can tell how many reads a QB is making simply by watching how many times a QB’s head moves once in the pocket. This is factually incorrect and unless you know the exact playcall is impossible to determine (reasons posted above).
Finally there’s accuracy and we all agree that we want an accurate QB right? Here’s where Merril Hoge and several MSM types as well as some here make a critical mistake. When watching practice you can’t tell what area of a specific skillset someone is focusing on, especially when you’re making major corrections or adjustments to a specific part of your game, sometimes other areas suffer. Without this understanding it’s easy for a casual observer can go to a practice, watch 50 passes, and conclude that he has terrible accuracy with a fair degree of certainty right? But then they wonder how in the hell he goes 6 for 7 in a game when he looked so bad in practice.
I’m not a Tebow apologist or an Orton sucks guy KK, I simply wish that people wouldn’t be so quick to make snap judgements (on all 3 QBs) or assume they know how a QB is progressing. FYI in the 3 practices I saw last week Orton was clearly the most polished (beautiful spirals, nice fluid footwork, comfortable in the pocket) Tebow didn’t look nearly as bad as people were saying (crisp drops, good velocity,good accuracy) and Quinn didn’t look nearly as good (still sailing 1 of every 3 passes high). But what do I know ??
"as in football so in life"
"Look good, play good, play good, pay good, pay good, eat good, eat good, live good, live good, die good".........Primetime
I'm going by the body of work that I saw
and the marked differences in all 3 QB’s. I believe Tebow when he said that he took 10,000+ snaps under center during the offseason. And if you watch that game, 4 of those 6 completions were good catches, not good passes. The one that he threw to Willis for instance, was behind him. If it was in front of Willis, it would have gone for at least the 1st down they were trying for and probably a TD. There wasn’t anyone covering that side of Willis, so yes, it was a bad pass. No 1st down, no TD. When the Receiver has to extend themselves to make a catch, yes, it’s a bad pass. When he has to dive because the pass is low for no reason, it’s still a bad pass. Watch the 3 penalty play, he ran when the pocket was still intact. His first reads should be made at the LOS and he should already know where the play is going. If he knows that, then he should know where his 2nd and 3rd options are going to be also, since he called the play right? So what is he waiting for, an invitation?
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
My ship finally came in, but it was the Kobayashi Maru.
Follow me on Twitter @MHR_KaptainKirk
Lol so 4 of 6 were bad passes and good catches?
Now you’re just letting your bias show KK. I guess perfection is a requirement for TT in your book. The long pass to Willis was between the corner and the safety and considering the angle the safety had would more than likely have been batted down if thrown longer.
As for the 3 penalty play i may be one of the few who are encouraged greatly by that play. Whereas many QBs would have simply thrown it out of bounds TT had the presence of mind to realize he was safely in FG range with nothing to lose by getting sacked and nothing to gain by bailing out so he wisely extended the play in hopes that he could find a way to get a TD. The outcome wasnt pretty but that’s what i want from my QB and from a team leader, someone who doesnt give up and always tries for the best possible result.
But I digress, if your perception is that every pass has to be perfect to be a “good pass” then you’re entitled to it (by the way by that standard both of KO’s passes were bad). In my opinion a good pass is a completed pass, a great pass is a pass in the optimal spot to allow the receiver to maintain his speed and a perfect pass does the latter and is pretty ie..spirals. The differences are much smaller than you realize and require much practice with the same receivers in order to gauge their speed and acceleration.
Back to the original assumption, that TT regressed. Can you not honestly see how some of his mechanics have dramatically improved over last year?
"as in football so in life"
"Look good, play good, play good, pay good, pay good, eat good, eat good, live good, live good, die good".........Primetime
He can't ad lib his way in the NFL
When he’s on the field, 21 people know he’s going to run. How is he supposed to be the greatest thing you guys keep saying he already is?
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
My ship finally came in, but it was the Kobayashi Maru.
Follow me on Twitter @MHR_KaptainKirk
by KaptainKirk on Aug 19, 2011 10:23 PM MDT up reply actions
Can't ad lib..as McEnroe said " You can't be serious"
How can you possibly say that after watching the Duke ad lib for right in front of your eyes for all those years? It’s not about 21 people knowing he’s going to run, it’s about 11 people not knowing if he’ll run or pass. Just like with Elway, Young, Rogers etc… The threat of the run puts exponentially more pressure on the defense. You’re killing me man, I know that you know this but for some reason are ignoring it in regards to Tebow. And for the record once again I’m not a huge Tebow fan or anti Orton guy, I’m clearly on record saying Orton is ahead of TT right now and should start. I’d defend Orton or Quinn if I saw someone going after them with that much bias just as quick as I’m defending Tebow.
"as in football so in life"
"Look good, play good, play good, pay good, pay good, eat good, eat good, live good, live good, die good".........Primetime
KaptainKirk
If you are so right about Tebow…what are you afraid of? Why do you feel the need to convince anybody of anything? If a player, particularly a quarterback sucks they don’t make it. Period. There is no amount of apologist campaigning or fandom that will keep someone who can’t play out on the field.
If you are so right…all you have to do is watch it happen.
You are screaming so loudly your own personal negativity and bias because you can’t stand that someone you believe mediocre is actually making it, improving and is spectacular even as raw as he is.
That’s all that is.
"There's only one person who carries the ball right here..."
Here's the difference between the two sides.
We are confident that when Tebow gets a legitimate shot that he will take it and not look back. After all, isn’t that what we’ve been screaming for this whole time? They, on the other hand, are not confident about their guy. After all, he IS already number one on the depth chart. They don’t have to say anything, yet here we sit.
Some days, you're the pigeon. Some days, you're the statue.
And if you watch that game, 4 of those 6 completions were good catches, not good passes.
The coaches I played for always taught that an accurate pass is any pass that is catchable by the intended receiver.
Besides, isn’t nice to know that we have some playmakers at receiver as well?
Yes, it would be nice if every QB could throw laser perfect passes everytime but NONE of them do that.
Tebow receives more scutiny than any other QB I have ever followed in my 40 years of being a fan of pro football – bar none.
"It is our attitude at the beginning of a difficult task which, more than anything else, will affect its successful outcome." - William James
by FloridaFan62 on Aug 20, 2011 10:59 AM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
I just don't get it.
The all american boy with a sparkling clean image gets shit on by many, yet everyone loves the thug in Carolina. When you figure it out, please let me know.
Some days, you're the pigeon. Some days, you're the statue.
How in the HELL do you know what Tebow did? reaching much KK as this post is a plie of garbage....and you ARE better than that.....and yes I am calling you out because you are posting your opinion as fact.
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
Is it Free Agency yet? Wake me up when it starts!
and by the way, stoked Quinn was working hard, does not mean Tebow or Orton were not....but to purport one as right and one as wrong is just bush league.
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
Is it Free Agency yet? Wake me up when it starts!
Then why hasn't he improved then?
You keep screaming for him to start and that Orton flat out sucks and can’t get any better, when he has improved each year he’s been with the team. If Orton sucks what does that tell you about Tebow, when the coaches won’t even put him with the 1st string. Are they biased too?
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
My ship finally came in, but it was the Kobayashi Maru.
Follow me on Twitter @MHR_KaptainKirk
by KaptainKirk on Aug 19, 2011 10:28 PM MDT up reply actions
Who says he hasn't improved?
Beam me up Captain, I’m stuck on the planet of circular arguments….
"as in football so in life"
"Look good, play good, play good, pay good, pay good, eat good, eat good, live good, live good, die good".........Primetime
Whatup GC?
Nice new sig….
"as in football so in life"
"Look good, play good, play good, pay good, pay good, eat good, eat good, live good, live good, die good".........Primetime
I have never said Orton sucks...I have seen he is an avearge starting QB that some want to annoint as great if only "X" happens.....and I have said there is nothing wrong with average as long as you dont want to build around that...Tebow has upsdie...
But we wont know unless we play him. Its that simple.
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
Is it Free Agency yet? Wake me up when it starts!
Teams didn't want Orton
Sixth year QB Orton’s most experienced year was last season…he lost 10 games. His improvement was to complete more passing yards that didn’t win games, and fail to get touchdowns in the redzone that win games. This was so much a fact that, he pitched a hissy fit when the coaches and FO played Tebow and then Orton sought to look out for numero uno by asking to be traded. And here’s the clincher…FO and the coaches you are fond of mentioning had no problems accomodating him. They said anybody want Orton? Several teams said no…to heck no.
"There's only one person who carries the ball right here..."
You mean like the one where you keep saying
that just because he doesn’t practice well, he is a great game day player?
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
My ship finally came in, but it was the Kobayashi Maru.
Follow me on Twitter @MHR_KaptainKirk
by KaptainKirk on Aug 19, 2011 10:25 PM MDT up reply actions
If you don't understand the difference between practice and games.
Ther’s no use in trying to explain it. It’s the reason Fox said he prefers a “gamer” and the reason that KO was on the trade block…figure it out.
"as in football so in life"
"Look good, play good, play good, pay good, pay good, eat good, eat good, live good, live good, die good".........Primetime
Well, maybe there is something TT can learn from Quinn on this issue. For example, .maybe Quinn can explain how TT shouldn’t wait till his fifth season to show up.
Quinn was suppose to be pro ready from day one. Say what you want about how the Browns treated him, but holding out for almost 2 weeks while Anderson took all those snaps during training camp is really all on Quinn and his agent. And lets not forget Quinn had deals with Subway, Hummer and EAS, too, before he did much in the NFL.
But I guess throwing that in Quinn’s face kind of makes me seem like a jerk, huh?
by SubwayAlumni on Aug 19, 2011 2:25 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Lol +1000
maybe Quinn can explain how TT shouldn’t wait till his fifth season to show up.
"as in football so in life"
"Look good, play good, play good, pay good, pay good, eat good, eat good, live good, live good, die good".........Primetime
by asinsoin on Aug 19, 2011 2:43 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
+1 and he didn't even show up well enough for teams in desperate need of a QB to go for him like Kolb
"There's only one person who carries the ball right here..."
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