MHR Poll of the Week for August 28, 2011: Weakest Link in 2011
by Topher Doll on Aug 28, 2011 12:00 PM MDT
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It was a shorter week last week, but we just had quite the game yesterday, and it's looking like it might be a season of hope, even if you don't like whoever takes the field at QB. Well last week I asked you if you were a NFL head coach, what would you focus you offense on, and we get some good responses, lets see what a few members said:
Last 6 Teams in the Super Bowl
Packers/Steelers; Saints/Colts; Cards/Steelers… all throw the ball. Pack Cards and Colts are obivous passing teams. Steelers used to be known for rushing, and ppl assume they run a lot, but they really dont. They spread the field a whole lot.
Triz06
Having high quality
recievers and runners is hard to do. If you can run well it generally means you can pass sufficiently. All of it depends on a good O line. I would (if anyone asked me) want to pass to run. With a heavy hitter at FB to clean up those short yardage situations. Here we come SB ;D
Sean in Pa.
While there is always a need for balance
The NFL rules are tilting further and further in favor of the QB’s and WR’s. With less physical practice time, that trend will continue. If you want to win in the NFL today, you have to pass the ball a lot (though obviously running the ball can’t be as bad as we’ve been the last 2 years)
Summitgrad
| Answer: | Votes | Percentage |
|---|---|---|
| Run Focus | 198 | 26% |
| Pass Focus | 99 | 13% |
| A Little of Both | 459 | 61% |
| Total: | 756 | 100% |
We saw what was a good level of response trending towards a balanced offensive attack. The choice of run focus over pass focus makes sense since that pass mentality is associated with McD while the runs focus is tied closer to Fox. That would explain why run doubled pass in the results. Balance and a bit of both was the clear winner of this poll though, taking in around 60% of the votes, and I'm pretty sure most fans would respond this way, run and pass may shift back and forth, depending on the team, Indy would vote one way, Kansas City would vote another way, but I'm fairly confident on just about any site, over 50% of respondents would say "A Little of Both" was the way to go.
A few weeks ago, I asked you what squad was the weakest last season, and which squad was the strongest. This weeks question is kind of doing the same thing, but looking forward to next season. This week I am asking what unit do you feel is our weakest link going into 2011. A quick thing to mention, as I mentioned in the last weakest link post, this is asking not just which squad you feel is the bad, but which is the worst. You may feel the offensive line and the defensive tackle position, but which one is the weakest?
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I voted linebacker
That MIKE spot is still the weak link, IMO. RB is a close 2nd place, though. That’s probably not a popular opinion, but if Knowshon goes down, we could be screwed. McGahee is a role player that is playing his role exceptionally well, but he’s not an every down back. We have some hope in the depth, but I don’t have confidence that we can be a running team if Moreno goes down.
Fingers crossed.
We need a techie to change the words in that Black Eyed Peas song 'Boom Boom Pow' to make it like our battle cry
Gotta get that Von Doom Boom. Gotta get that Von Doom Pow
Ya'll gettin' hit with the Von Doom
Kepp gettin' hit with the Von Doom
(Sounds a lot better with a beat instead of a keypad :)
as often is the case...
I agree with a lot of your analysis.
MLB looks tenuous… but while I think it’ll be (below) average, I think we have a few options, so I think we’ll muddle through.
RB would definitely take a step back with injury to Moreno, but even average backs can succeed with decent olines in front of them so I don’t think Moreno is critical to the offense’s success overall (though he’ll defintiely help).
My bigger fear is o-line and DT… while our starters/rotation are solid now (assuming Bunkley and thomas return by wk1), if we have any sort of injury, we could go from solid to gawdawful suckitude in a moment. The suckitude could be to the extent that it could sink the efforts of surrounding units, and thus the season. Given the nature of oline/dline play, I think the chances the oline 5 and 3 remaning non-garbage DTs can stay healthy all season is probably wishful thinking…
DT is the biggest weak link today
I’m not sure why I forgot to add that caveat. The reason I answered as I did is because I see Joe Mays as our starter and Irving backing him up at MIKE. In other words, I don’t see any changes coming at LB, so I see that position as being the weakest link all season long. At DT, I see Bunk and Thomas getting healthy and I see us adding at least one more.
The MLB position is usually a really bad position to have a weak link. But with Von Miller and DJ on each side, I think they’ll mask what he lacks in speed, etc..
We need a techie to change the words in that Black Eyed Peas song 'Boom Boom Pow' to make it like our battle cry
Gotta get that Von Doom Boom. Gotta get that Von Doom Pow
Ya'll gettin' hit with the Von Doom
Kepp gettin' hit with the Von Doom
(Sounds a lot better with a beat instead of a keypad :)
yep - DJ and Miller's ability
plus swapping them for Woody in NB sets allows me to be more sanguine about Mays/Irving’s below averageness… If everyone stays healthy, MLB will indeed be the weak link…
I just don’t think its reasonable to think the oline/dline guys stay healthy all year, and the cliff on the other side of injury at oline/DT currently appears long and steep…
I voted special teams
because the one and only kick return by Seattle went all the way for a touchdown, and our only return was stopped by Seattle for short yardage.
by CompUser on Aug 28, 2011 12:30 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Was it against our starting special teamers
or were there reserves on the field? If the latter the TD was an anomaly, because our special teams have looked good except for that one play.
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
preseason
lotsa guys trying to make the team.
"The stupider one is, the closer one is to reality. The stupider one is, the clearer one is. Stupidity is brief and artless, while intelligence wriggles and hides itself.
- Fyodor D
by Whidbey Bronco on Aug 28, 2011 1:13 PM MDT up reply actions
It doesn't matter if they were first stringers, second stringers, or what.
They were playing against Seattle’s similar level players (for the most part), and they totally failed. Actually, if they were our first stringers, that only increases our problem. But if these are the guys we have to fall back on when injuries happen to the starters, we may be in trouble, special teams wise. It’s the same thing everyone says about the D-line. We’re in trouble if we lose too many of the starters to injuries. But, based solely on that one return, I think the problem is worse for special teams than it is for the D-line.
Special teams are going to take a diminished roll
That was the only kick returned all night, I don’t believe at home we are going to need to worry about kickoff coverage because every time Prater kicks off from the 35, it’s gonna be a touch back
by broncoboy326 on Aug 28, 2011 2:37 PM MDT up reply actions
Unless there's a penalty like happened last night.
They need to be ready just in case. Over confidence, and ignoring the kicking game because it’s overall importance to the game has been diminished, will to losses.
Still feel the O-Line needs work.
The push in the run game is inconsistent and Orlando Franklin is going to get Orton killed if he doesn’t improve his pass blocking fast.
OLine at present, imo
but injuries could make the DL the biggest problem real fast. Special teams blew a single runback, but most of the time it will simply be out of the endzone…not a big problem over the year.
Rodney, your point on RB is very well taken…don’t jinx us! :D
I voted Special Teams because of depth
I am getting more and more comfortable with our starters amongst all the units with each passing week. I truly believe that our 1’s can play with the starters of any NFL team – across all positions What our team is lacking is depth. O Line, D Line, LBs and secondary are the units with the most depth concerns. I believe this will have the most significant impact on Special Teams once the regular season starts.
by VC Orange Crush on Aug 28, 2011 12:42 PM MDT reply actions
First string only, no injuries, and I could by his statement
No GAPING holes, anyway. Injuries (even as they are now), game-time substitution requirements, and we got problems.
"Special Teams"
Comeon, admit it. After punts and kickoffs that don’t go for touchbacks what has you cursing at the tv more? I know the defense has been butt ugly but the special teams always are bad in my humble opinion
DL? Seriously?
After the three preseason games of allowing no TDs?
I vote Offense…specifically RB and QB.
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I'm hearing you a bit, but...
What really lacks on OL and DL is depth. Losing Warren hurt, and I don’t like the sound of having to use McBean in a starting role. I shudder to think about the result of any starting OL going down.
With that said, RB depth would be nice. The position obviously takes a pounding through the season.
QB is a touchy point. I’m OK with Orton, going into the season….so far. He has shown some sac, has an accurate plus arm, has the smarts necessary, runs the play action very well……..has an unfortunate combination of big feet and skinny ankles, and folds under pressure. Quinn has a long way to go to show me anything concrete, and Tebow is also yet unproven.
I’m cautiously optimistic, but I’m not sold that QB is set by any means.
by jayrockstone on Aug 28, 2011 1:32 PM MDT up reply actions
How many top 5 rushing teams have we faced in the preseason?
"The only thing I’m addicted to right now is winning." -Charlie Sheen
"I'm going to be a Bronco forever" -Rahim Moore
Tim, I agree with you here. The DL is having the crazy injury issues, but along with QB I’m concerned with the O-line … it all starts with the guys in the trenches! As we saw with Shanny, almost anyone can run the ball if you have a great line. I worry about Orton’s mobility and ability to make something happen if the line isn’t giving him great pass protection.
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by Nate Timmons on Aug 28, 2011 3:05 PM MDT up reply actions
With all the injuries....look at how the DL dominated.....
I just can’t see how that is our biggest issue right now. :)
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Remember Tim, Mr. Lynch for the Hawks didnt play yesterday. We need DL healthy
But the Oline and Qb’s are my biggest concern, if anth Oline gets hurt we are in a heap of trouble
I voted O-line too with ST being a close second. The D-line is a work in progress but it's come a long way from last year.
It’s not the worst unit on the team.
As the ancient Tibetan Philosophy states "Don't start none, won't be none!"
I voted TE! Really if each of the other units stays healthy (DJ! damn.), we're actually sitting pretty good.
Tight End is undecided.
Who is our receiving TE again?
"The stupider one is, the closer one is to reality. The stupider one is, the clearer one is. Stupidity is brief and artless, while intelligence wriggles and hides itself.
- Fyodor D
J. Thomas
6’ 5" and 255 lbs. 4 recepts. for 70 yards last night— don’t think he has dropped a pass this preseason . . .
by bronco.fan on Aug 28, 2011 1:59 PM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
And the idiot Seattle announcers kept calling him Demaryous
I kid you not!
History is a collection of lies, agreed upon -- Napoleon Bonaparte
by Schwerepunkt on Aug 28, 2011 2:14 PM MDT up reply actions
yeah i perked up when i heard that!
Er yeah he dropped passes this season but I’ll have to watch him over for sure.
Rookie still right?
So not a lock regardless.
"The stupider one is, the closer one is to reality. The stupider one is, the clearer one is. Stupidity is brief and artless, while intelligence wriggles and hides itself.
- Fyodor D
by Whidbey Bronco on Aug 28, 2011 5:24 PM MDT up reply actions
So not a lock regardless
Do you mean lock at starter or to make the team? Because I think he is a lock to make the team.
I can't forget ... but I can't remember what.
rookie starter
Why not start J.T. as receiving TE? Much discussion about building the team through the draft. If you have a TE who can come in and catch the ball in traffic and pull in some yards after the catch, why not start him? Just goes to show how well the Broncos did this year by picking athletes at position. Still say the biggest steal of the draft was R. Moore at safety. He was clearly the best safety in the draft. Thomas has been playing with the 1st string and against first string D, and it already looks like there is some Orton chemistry with him. Can’t wait until we have two Thomas’s catching passes!
i voted DL
Only because of DT but other than that i think its depth.
"The only thing I’m addicted to right now is winning." -Charlie Sheen
"I'm going to be a Bronco forever" -Rahim Moore
How could anyone vote for DL when we have Doom and Von back in the mix?
Bronco Champions are being forged as we speak.
I voted Special Teams
Our coverage and return teams are LOUSY. Kickers are good, though.
History is a collection of lies, agreed upon -- Napoleon Bonaparte
The Special Teams gaffe last night was a bit of a red flag
but I still went for DL as the weak link. If Doom and Von weren’t rushing the edges, that line would be BAD. I think our LBs are going to look weaker than they really are this year, especially in run defense, because they are going to have to pick up a lot of slack where the interior line falls short.
I hope Denver can get someone else for that inside before the trade deadline because it’s going to be a liability all year unless the existing players start playing out of their minds.
Also, Vick needs to put on 20 more lbs in order to make a different inside. Just my opinion.
27--29--11 May all your spirits rest in peace.
It wasn't an option
but I would say depth.
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
My ship finally came in, but it was the Kobayashi Maru.
Follow me on Twitter @MHR_KaptainKirk
by KaptainKirk on Aug 28, 2011 2:20 PM MDT reply actions 2 recs
Yep.
And thinking depth is why I voted Offensive Line. Since our Defensive line includes Doom/Ayers (sometimes even Von Miller) with adequate backup at both of the DE positions. Its just a little soft in the middle. I think our starting DT’s are sufficient (not all-pro’s) but with injuries happening the depth is disappearing at DT.
Before Warren’s injury (and then Bunkley’s last night) our DL was actually pretty strong) It’s out OLine where the first sub in is questionable.
"It is better to be rougly right than precisely wrong." - John Maynard Keynes
"Excellence can be obtained; if you care more than others think is wise…risk more than others think is safe…dream more than others think is practical…expect more than others think is possible." - Anonymous Author
by Alexander Wall on Aug 28, 2011 2:36 PM MDT up reply actions
I'm not even sold on two of our starters on OL,
in Beadles and Franklin. That nobody is on the team to beat either out really does lead to a concern for OL depth.
BTW, I think Franklin will improve but right now he’s a menace to the QB’s health.
Beadles just doesn’t seem to have enough lead in his pants in the run game sometimes.
Lead in His Pants
What? Lead where?
Every time I read one of these posts carping about the O Line, with Beadles, Franklin, or Walton as the source of all of the Broncos running game problems, pass protection issues and everything else, it gets on my nerves.
First of all it’s preseason. Can we all get that? The Broncos have a lot of problems that need fixing, but right now one of the best functioning parts of the team is the O Line. I agree there isn’t any back up for the O Line, and that’s a problem. However, the starting five are fine.
Franklin will come around as the season moves along. He’s got a lot to learn. He’s a rookie! It would have been nice if Harris had resigned, especially for the same money that he got from the Eagles. But he didn’t so Franklin is the man for the foreseeable future.
Kuper and Clady are good O Line guys who make their share of mistakes. Beadles, Clady and Kuper were very close last year in sacks allowed and penalties but Beadles was a rookie playing two positions. Clady and Kuper get a pass on mistakes. Beadles gets pounded. That’s just based on dumb ass analysis and no thinking.
The offense will be fine. The question is can the defense hold the opponents to fewer points than the Broncos can score. That’s a really big question, and it’s the one problem that concerns me.
The defense should be worrying a lot of fans.
Agree with Kap... the question is DEPTH - especially on the O-Line
Honestly, how can anyone watch the 2nd string offensive line and not be scared out of your mind!!!! They can’t even play well against 2nd and 3d string defenses, let alone if some of those jokers get into the starting rotation because of an injury.
God save the Broncos if Manny Ramirez is the starting Center… correction… God save Kyle Orton!!!
by OverDilusions on Aug 28, 2011 8:31 PM MDT up reply actions
I said Franklin will improve just like you did.
He has struggled in pass protection but I expect that will get better.
Sorry I got on your nerves with Beadles, but from what I’ve seen the area of his game where he has the most issue is getting a push in the run game. I didn’t criticize his pass blocking so I’m not sure why you are bringing up sacks allowed.
As far as not liking the metaphor…thhhbbbbbpttt!!!! :)
Jaffe28
Jaffe28, you don’t personally get on my nerves.
I just read a lot of commentary blaming Beadles or Walton for every problem. This year more of that is focused on Franklin.
Beadles is the smartest player on team—yes team. He watches tape of the games and knows what he does wrong. He’ll find ways to take his assignments out of the plays. It often won’t be pretty or perfect, just effective.
Run blocking isn’t always about the push. Most NFL O line guys don’t get a lot of push back off the snap. Run blocking is more about positioning. It’s really about putting the defender in a position where they can’t get into the play.
All starting DL and OL guys in the NFL are strong, especially in the legs. They all understand technique. Not everyone executes 100% of the time, so of course guys get beat.
When I watch O Line play, I watch how effective an O Line guy was at keeping his intended target out of the primary stop—not secondary grabs or pile on’s, but the primary disruption of the runner. I also watch what the O line guy does after his assignment breaks away from him. In other words how many times does a freed up O line guy make a secondary block or disruption that helps out on the play. I watch how many times an O line guy makes or misses his pull. I watch to see what he does if his target is beating him.
I don’t worry about push back except within the five yard line. The key there is to see which O line guy the play is run behind. In the red zone real estate becomes crowded so push on runs is more important but often not the biggest factor. One focus in the red zone is tying up the DL, not necessarily push back.
When the season starts let’s see how these guys each do in the categories I mentioned.
Franklin is going to be problem sometimes on pass blocking. But he’ll improve. Probably not fast enough to suit the fans, but fast enough to keep the coaches from moving him.
by FormerUMP on Aug 28, 2011 11:55 PM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
Rec'd
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
My ship finally came in, but it was the Kobayashi Maru.
Follow me on Twitter @MHR_KaptainKirk
Can't argue with most of that.
And I agree with you on how run blocking works. I’d also say we are improved at opening holes on early downs and picking up yards. I’m still noticing inconsistency in short yardage and goal line. The push also seems less in those situations on when the runs are to Beadles’ side. I don’t know if it is technique or size/strength in those situations. My guess is the latter, particularly since its clear his technique has improved over time. Do I think he is a decent player? Yes I do. Do I think he can get better? Probably? He’s also the player in my mind that we might look to upgrade when we look at the OL in the offseason. Though that is certainly contingent upon what he shows this season.
I certainly don’t blame him exclusively for issues in the running game. Knowshon needs to get his pad level down. McGahee is still getting the feel of the guys in front of him. I do think the backs and line as a running unit will get better as the year goes on.
I’m fine with Franklin getting a full shot at RT. He’s a beast when he gets hands on and drives in the run game. Time will tell if his dexterity along with repetition will get him better in pass protection.
I’m never one to assume that someone is terrible and that’s that. This bit of discussion started because I said I wasn’t sold on Franklin and Beadles. That doesn’t mean that I can’t be. Just means I’m still in wait and see mode. And as with all the Broncos, as long as the coaches throw them in there I’ll root for them and believe that they are doing everything they can do to get better.
Sold on Goal Line
Franklin is a physical player not a mental player. He’ll have to improve by going over and over the plays until he knows what to do and when to do it. He’ll have to learn to improve on his reaction time to unexpected situations, which is going to be the hardest thing for him to do. O tackles have to improvise and make quick decisions. They don’t have time to look around and figure out what to do.
Within the five yard line, O line play on runs straight ahead often come down to a two man game—one guard and the center. If the coaches run a lot of plays behind Beadles, then the fans can rest easy that Beadles is getting it done better than the other options—and that’s true even if the series doesn’t end in a TD.
If the OC runs a play or two on the left side and then switches and doesn’t go back, then the fans know that in those situations the combination of Beadles and Walton isn’t getting it done. But until that becomes apparent in game situations, there is no way to predict Beadles effectiveness. Inside the five, it’s all about where the rubber meets the road. A lot changes in there.
As I said, I don’t see reams of problems on with the offense. It will be good enough to get it done, if the denfense can match the offensive productivity.
Right now, I see a lot of problems with the D, and I don’t see any quick fixes. Maybe I’m wrong. Only time will tell, but I think the D is going to cost the Broncos 2 or 3 wins this season. Right now I am thinking an 7 and 9 season that could have been 9 and 7.
Indeed! OL depth being most worrisome.
No matter who starts at QB, we will be 8-8 or better (8-2-11)
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."
John Adams
I voted O-line.
the starters are great, but you always need that 6th OL-men who can play tackle/gaurd. And i honestly do not believe we have that guy on the roster.
But i do agree with KK. Depth concerns me.
Zane concerns me a bit.
Franklin ;looks like he is getting help a lot from the RB when Orton is passing. To bad we can’t have the back to double duty.
It's DL hands down...
There’s little starting quality and NO depth. Using preseason stats to predict positional depth/quality is vastly over hyping the situation.. We need DL, OL, CB depth. Our 2nd-3rd strings look abysmal. We can’t afford that kind of drop-off and have much hope of staying in games when injuries and length of season start popping up. But I completely agree that our overall defense looks stout this preseason. Thank you Doom & Gloom…
"Attitude reflects Leadership" Hogblog...aka KSM
This was tricky
But I had to go with QB. The fact is we are either short on talent (Orton) ability to bring it in games (Quinn) or experience and polish (Tebow). I wish Depth was an option though because that would quickly get my vote. I do get that Quinn has looked better than ever in preseason games and Orton does have some talent, but I am comparing them to what every team wants at QB and what they have historically shown
If we get lucky, our starters are not really weak in any specific area. Our lines are both very solid, our skill positions on offense are diverse and talented, our LBs and Secondary both have guys with HOF levels of talent AND experience. But say Champ goes down, then our Secondary is awful. Take DOOM out of the D-Line and you have last year. Remove either of our top 2 RBs and it is a nightmare. Lloyd gets hurt, and who is the real deep threat?
It could be argued that TE can get the same treatment as QB does in my argument, but from what I have seen we are in good shape there. I suspect we keep 3-4 TEs and possibly no fullbacks because that is where the talent is.
Ok, Von Doom is a way better nickname than what I liked. So cool to be excited about a pass rush in Denver again!
I want to say how awesome a particular Rockies player is and that he will be the MVP, but the last time I mentioned it in my sig he went out with an injury, so, GO PLAYER WHO IS SO AWESOME!
by Arimaris on Aug 28, 2011 3:47 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Depth is of course our biggest issue but let's not everybody expect the backups to play with eachother during the season.
You can hide a lot of green talent when you surround them with starters.
It’s not so bad as we see in the preseason.
I’m more worried about DT and CB depth than anything… we basically have none there unless M thomas heals quick and we pick up a CB this week.
"The stupider one is, the closer one is to reality. The stupider one is, the clearer one is. Stupidity is brief and artless, while intelligence wriggles and hides itself.
- Fyodor D
I would like to officially change my vote.
Watching the Oakland game right now…they still can run the rock. With recent injuries depleting the DT, I am voting DT instead of o-line.
I voted D-Line, but that was because DEPTH on O-Line wasn't an option...
the first string O-Line is solid. They gave KO 7 Seconds in the pocket at times to throw, that’s incredible. They also opened enough holes to give Moreno and McGahee decent room to run (not like 1998 1999 Broncos running lanes, but much better then the past two years).
My biggest concern is what happens if even ONE of those starters goes down. The 2nd string offensive line was SEVERLY exposed for what it really is against the Seahawks – when Tebow had to run for his life 50% of the pass plays.
Those guys as a set belong on the practice squad… not one of them appears to be starting quality. IMO
The D-line
If only due to injury, the defensive line is depleted. Jarmon is not meant for the inside, yet even he is forced to take snaps as a d-tackle. We better hope our talent scouts are able to find some good quality tackles off the waiver wire, because no matter how good our D has looked so far, this d-line will not hold up.
by intramural sport bench coach on Aug 28, 2011 8:57 PM MDT reply actions
DL depth seems to be performing better than the OL depth....
Therefore, I voted OL!
No matter who starts at QB, we will be 8-8 or better (8-2-11)
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."
John Adams
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