Denver Broncos News - Horse Tracks - 8/9/11
by Tim Lynch on Aug 9, 2011 7:11 AM MDT
in Horse Tracks
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Longtime assistant coach Jerry Smith dead at 80, served as Broncos interim head coach in ‘71 - The Washington Post
ENGLEWOOD, Colo. — Jerry Smith, whose 26-year NFL coaching career included a stint as the Denver Broncos interim head coach in 1971, has died at age 80.
Defense Makes a Statement | DenverBroncos.com
The defense dominated practice Monday and rookie Rahim Moore talked about how Brian Dawkins has taken him under his wing.
John Fox Pulls No Surprises In Denver Broncos' Preseason Depth Chart - SB Nation Denver
John Fox released his first preseason depth chart for the Denver Broncos. Kyle Orton is the No. 1 quarterback ahead of Tim Tebow and Brady Quinn, in that order.
Kiszla: Hey, Broncos fans — Kyle Orton is glad coach is making QB decision - The Denver Post
Hey, Broncomaniacs. Did you get the message? Kyle Orton is glad you arent picking the teams starting quarterback.
Kyle Orton Feels 'Well On The Way' To Denver Broncos Starting QB Spot - SB Nation Denver
The first Denver Broncos depth chart has been released for the 2011 preseason and Kyle Orton is the team's No. 1 quarterback heading into Thursday's game with the Dallas Cowboys. He may not be the most popular choice among a certain segment of the fans, but he is clearly John Fox's quarterback--for the moment.
Broncos rookie tight end Julius Thomas creates early buzz - The Denver Post
Julius Thomas jogged out of the tunnel and onto the Invesco Field at Mile High turf for the first time Saturday afternoon. And as he ran to join his teammates for some prescrimmage warm-ups, a handful of fans who were sitting in the front row screamed his name.
Broncos' pass protection still a work in progress - The Denver Post
Now that the Kyle Orton-Tim Tebow drama has seemingly moved from heated controversy to no real competition, perhaps people can start paying attention to other Broncos issues.
Broncos QB Kyle Orton atop depth chart, Tim Tebow No. 2 - NFL - SI.com
ENGLEWOOD, Colo. (AP) -- Tim Tebow is winning Denver's quarterback competition -- for the No. 2 job behind starter Kyle Orton.
Orton once again miles ahead of Tebow in QB race - Boulder Daily Camera
ENGLEWOOD -- The Denver Broncos have a quarterback quandary on their hands even if its not panning out as much of a competition.
NFL.com news: In the saddle: Orton over Tebow on Broncos' QB depth chart
The Broncos released their first preseason depth chart, which left little doubt about who their starting QB is. Hint: It isn't Tim Tebow.
DenverBroncos.com
2011 Training Camp - Day 12: Fox | DenverBroncos.com
Head Coach John Fox talks about gearing up for Thursday's preseason opener against Dallas.
2011 Training Camp - Day 12: Orton | DenverBroncos.com
Quarterback Kyle Orton talks to the press after Monday's practice.
MaxDenver.com
Camp Day 10: Takeaways and Taking Precautions | MaxDenver.com
Less than three days now separate the Broncos from their preseason opener below the twin 11,200-square-foot television screens at Cowboys Stadium, but don’t expect them to alter their training-camp schedule too much to account for game-planning.
Orton Isn’t Fans’ Choice, But Is Team’s | MaxDenver.com
Tim Tebow is obviously still the people’s choice. His jerseys are ubiquitous at Broncos practices; his merchandise still consumes an entire section of the Broncos’ online store, and no matter how great his struggles appear to be in team periods this camp, he still generates the same fervor as the Beatles’ arrival at JFK Airport.
First and Orange Blog
Broncos' AFC foes roundup from Monday | First-and-Orange
As we get closer and closer to actual games (ok … exhibition games), it’s time to start paying attention to what’s going on around the division.
Broncos depth chart: Fells starting TE | First-and-Orange
The only surprise on the Broncos’ first released depth chart was a mild one. It occurred at tight end where Daniel Fells has already moved ahead of Richard Quinn.
The Denver Post
Broncos Mailbag: What will it take for Tim Tebow to become No. 1? - The Denver Post
The Posts Broncos writer responds to your questions in Mike Klis Broncos Mailbag. In this, the seasons first regular installment, Mike tackles eight Qs, including one about what Tim Tebow needs to become the starter and another about offseason moves.
Broncos QB Orton seeks quick appearance in preseason opener - The Denver Post
Kyle Ortons goal is not to play any more in the preseason than necessary for the offense to be sharp enough to open the season Sept. 12.
Analysis: NFL playbooks come with patience this year - The Denver Post
When a rebuilding job is as big as the one the Broncos have on their hands, a well-thought-out plan is required to get it done.
Q&A: LenDale White has work to do to stick with Broncos - The Denver Post
Because of back pain and spams, LenDale White has practiced only a couple of times since training camp opened.
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Kisla
I lol’d when I read about the Elway candy fiasco. I had completely forgotten about that. Talk about stupid QB debates :D
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
Some good DP reads today. I’m shocked.
Excited about this Julius Thomas at TE. Sounds like Orton may have a red zone weapon that makes FGs into TDs. Also like the sound of Moreno’s new found speed.
Not excited about our O-line other than Clady and Kuper. I keep reading that Beadles and Walton have not improved. I’m also reading the same thing I was saying when we drafted Orlando Franklin, that he proving to be a great run blocker that can’t pass protect for squat.
Unfortunately, it only takes a few bad plays from your RT to get your QB destroyed. I saw that plenty in 2010 watching the Canes (driving killing sacks, holding calls and worst of all, the QB injury).
O-line (not the defense) is quickly becoming my biggest worry in 2011. If Beadles and Walton don’t improve, we’ll be no where near 8-8. If Clady gets injured early, I’m on the 2-14 train. If can probably leave a TE or RB to held Orlando, but Beadles and Walton will need to step up quick. If McD drafted yet two more subpar starters with high picks, I’m going to be pissed.
"Well at least we picked a good year to suck" said Pat Bowlen after countersigning Von Miller's rookie contract.
McGeorge
Did you catch NFLN this morning talking about Tebow going to southern Florida? Funny stuff man. “Cane’s fans wouldn’t like it”
I loved it!
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
In their fine tradition of replaying the same commentary 1000 times....
I saw that last night. Now they devote 5 minute analysis segments on completely fictional trades…..pretty sad
No matter who starts at QB, we will be 8-8 or better (8-2-11)
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."
John Adams
This is their format for discussion.
“okay, how about this… a three way trade! Tebow to Miami, Vontae Davis to Cleveland and Payton Hillis back to Denver. And everyone swaps 1st round draft pick order.
There is your topic… discuss!"
"Well at least we picked a good year to suck" said Pat Bowlen after countersigning Von Miller's rookie contract.
lol
they really do discuss such unrealistic scenarios. I really question who the hell’s in charge. For a channel that claims to be the NFL’s, they seem pretty out of touch
If you reply to a comment/post/fanshot of mine, I will more likely then not respond to it, unless you come off like a d-bag.
Albert Breer
is standup, I don’t mind Michael Lombardi GENERALLY, let me make that quite clear, lest I get my head ripped off
Brad James
Follow me on Twitter
With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!
by the new Bradfather on Aug 9, 2011 2:40 PM MDT up reply actions
nothing against there experts
just saying the topics they throw for them are stupid
If you reply to a comment/post/fanshot of mine, I will more likely then not respond to it, unless you come off like a d-bag.
by DBroncs1414 on Aug 10, 2011 12:33 AM MDT up reply actions
You know I wouldnt mind that trade
No save ammunition all bullets in gun now- Bruce Campbell
Stand up straight a man looks more confident when he is erect- Taj
I don't always drink and drive, but when I do, I prefer Dos Equis- BroncoPH
BRONCOS 4 LIFE
You do realize the d-line has improved a lot though right?
Ty Warren, Bunkley, and Vickerson are not push overs by any means. Those guys are way better than an old Jamal Williams, Green, and Banan. They’re getting good competition every day and they’re not going to look good all the time. Bunkley was one of the better run stuffers the last few years and Warren is as well. So I’m not worried. I’m actually glad their getting this good of competition in practice.
by tiderfootball09 on Aug 9, 2011 8:46 AM MDT up reply actions
People around here were pretty fired up....
…..last year when we brought in Williams, Green, and Banaan. As soon as I see Bunkley and Warren are recovered from their injuries and have returned to their previous form I’ll be more excited. Vickerson still doesn’t excite me…and now that he has slimmed down in an apparent attempt to play safety, I’ll wait on him as well.
"Pain don't hurt" - Swayze (Road House) -- We miss you man!
Really?
Just so you know, Jamal Williams was 35, Bannan as 31, and Green was 31. Two of those guys were backups and Jamal Williams should have just retired. Now Bunkley was a starter for the Eagles for three seasons. Each of those seasons the Eagles were top 5 in stopping the run. Ty Warren was the starter for Pats—obviously. And I would say his almost better then Cullen Jenkins. His already recovered from his injury and his been practicing—in case you forgot. With Vickerson, he actually had a solid season, you could even look at the stats for that one. So yes, I will be fired up about those guys playing. If you don’t want to then it’s your choice…..
by tiderfootball09 on Aug 9, 2011 11:59 AM MDT up reply actions
And if they continue to lose these battles vs our better D-linemen, my worry that we have still have a subpar C and LG.
I’m happy for our D, but that doesn’t fix our O-line problem. It just exposes it in TC rather than week one. Great!
"Well at least we picked a good year to suck" said Pat Bowlen after countersigning Von Miller's rookie contract.
True
They’re pretty young still and only entering their second season. I was hopping that EFX would bring in some savy vets to back them up or maybe even start this year. I think Lenard Davis would be a nice addition. I’m still mad about the broncos not keeping Casey Weigman around. He would have been great for Walton to learn from.
by tiderfootball09 on Aug 9, 2011 12:02 PM MDT up reply actions
“If can probably leave a TE or RB to held Orlando,” What the heck does that mean?
Lets try that again, “we can probably leave a TE or RB on the right side to help Orlando on passing plays”
"Well at least we picked a good year to suck" said Pat Bowlen after countersigning Von Miller's rookie contract.
Well
KO might not last very long at all with Orlando.
You can be dumb... that's ok! There are many dumb people.
You can be an a$$hole... that's ok! There are many of these as well.
Unfortunately you cannot be both...
Ok... prove me wrong.
Ha
I kept re reading that….??
Thought it was a brain fart on my part…. lol
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
I'd bet that another starting quality OL player is first on the waiver priority list....
No matter who starts at QB, we will be 8-8 or better (8-2-11)
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."
John Adams
So our O-line is looking pretty bad already?
So I’m thinking Orton won’t last until week six before his lack of mobility ends his season. Anyone want to get a pool going?
I shot Bigfoot yesterday. I ate him and dumped the remains in the lake before I could prove it. Just take my word for it. Seriously. - Doug Stanhope
I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. - Thomas Jefferson
I take the under. Green Bay in week four.
"Well at least we picked a good year to suck" said Pat Bowlen after countersigning Von Miller's rookie contract.
And KO is the worst quarterback in the NFL for an O-line...
Kyle is smart, tough, a good teammate and a fairly accurate passer. The problem is he can not extend a play and he does not even slide in the pocket well like Manning and Brady. You don’t have to be Vick, but you need a sense of when to step up, or slide to a particular side to avoid the rush. It is not just knowing where to go but when to avoid a sack. It makes a huge difference in a team’s passing attack.
It is why KO is an average NFL starter. If he could extend the play or slide in the pocket he would be a really good starter. This shortcoming is also why no other team was interested in him as a quality starting quarterback. If KO can at least learn to throw the ball away, hopefully the D and running game can cover this flaw.
by Keyworthpunch on Aug 9, 2011 9:05 AM MDT up reply actions
I would still start him, he gives us the best chance of winning...
Tebow has his problems as well heh. One of his main problems is he is not any more accurate throwing on the run than he is in the pocket. If he was, well, you could use a lot of roll outs to leverage his mobility. Like Shanny did with a young Cutler. Tebow can make plays with his legs but he is not that fast, not fast enough to consistently make plays with his legs. I can understand why people think he would make a good fullback, TE, H-back or even a linebacker.
If Tebow can’t be accurate from the pocket, at least NFL average accurate, his play making with his feet won’t matter.
by Keyworthpunch on Aug 9, 2011 9:10 AM MDT up reply actions
Don't get me wrong. I want to see us win and if Orton is our best chance to do that, then so be it.
I’m expressing my doubts that he can take the physical pounding he is likely to get. Fox’s plan to make us a run-first team better work for Orton’s sake.
I shot Bigfoot yesterday. I ate him and dumped the remains in the lake before I could prove it. Just take my word for it. Seriously. - Doug Stanhope
I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. - Thomas Jefferson
A Nice little nigget I found from the pass-pro DP article
“Hopefully, we’ll be like Ryan Clady and Elvis. They’ve been going against each other every day for three, four years. You’ve got to mix it up so when you go in the game it will be easier.”
-Von Miller
I never really thought about it, but now I do think that Clady and Doom have probably made each other better. Hopefully Miller can make Franklin good enough so McG doesn’t have to bash his pass pro skills daily anymore.
If you reply to a comment/post/fanshot of mine, I will more likely then not respond to it, unless you come off like a d-bag.
KO Just went up a notch in my book.
Fans fall in love with players, coaches fall in love with production. That’s why they get paid to coach and we pay to watch.
W.W.T.T.D.?
I think the money quote was at the end
(probably going to butcher this)
“Winning games makes everyone love you.”
Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.
by frightened inmate #2 on Aug 9, 2011 8:58 AM MDT up reply actions
Mojo recovery project
seems to be going well. this is the kind of thing that gives me hope that Elfoxx is fixing the bronco train wreck and getting it back on track:
Between that workout and April’s draft, (Julius) Thomas called Barone to say thanks and tell Barone how much he’d like to be a Bronco.
“It was probably not too smart to get your hopes up on one team, but I was like, sometimes you just have to go with your gut and do something that feels right,” Thomas said.
how much he’d like to be a bronco? nice.
This
and don’t forget Rahim Moore, who was so grateful the Broncos drafted him that he said he wanted to be a career Bronco the second they called him on draft day lol. I like our rookies, they have talent and character, EFX did a slam dunk job
If you reply to a comment/post/fanshot of mine, I will more likely then not respond to it, unless you come off like a d-bag.
Kinda like Oxmouth's "ELFOXX"
At least its better than EFX.
If I can't have high expectations that succeed, I''d rather have high expectations and be disappointed than have low expectations and be resigned to losing.
by OrangeandBluesBros on Aug 9, 2011 9:58 AM MDT up reply actions
Plus
Fox’s name is Zorro in Spanish anyway, so that’s debonair!
Brad James
Follow me on Twitter
With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!
by the new Bradfather on Aug 9, 2011 2:41 PM MDT up reply actions
I'll be darned, you're right
Had to go look that one up in a Spanish-English dictionary, but you are correct.
So, would that be the Zorro Offense or the Zorro Defense?
Who will wear the cape?
Will the Broncos go from a sorry bunch to a Zorroy bunch?
If I can't have high expectations that succeed, I''d rather have high expectations and be disappointed than have low expectations and be resigned to losing.
by OrangeandBluesBros on Aug 9, 2011 4:30 PM MDT up reply actions
Viva ElFoxXo
Me gusto mucho
If I can't have high expectations that succeed, I''d rather have high expectations and be disappointed than have low expectations and be resigned to losing.
by OrangeandBluesBros on Aug 9, 2011 6:18 PM MDT up reply actions
What if the reason they kept KO was....
EFX does not think this is going to be the rebuilding year everyone predicts. If they thought it was going to be a rebuilding year, it would make sense to dump Orton even if you did not get much for him and see what Tebow could do. If Tebow does not develop, EFX pursues another quarterback and it is not like giving away Orton is going to haunt when Orton turns into a HoF player.
But what if….looking at a rejuvenated defense and a better running game, EFX thought why can’t we compete in our division? SD is picked as a super bowl favorite every year and, yet, that does not happen. More to the point, Rivers has trouble with good pass rushing teams. Well with the legion of Doom, we might have a defense that can get to him and limit is production. Why wouldn’t EFX think they can compete with KC and Oakland?
Is it so crazy to think with a steady QB that does not make mistakes and won’t cause any problems that has a wealth of WR talent and a rejuvenated running game and hopefully a good defense, that such a team could compete in the AFC west?
by Keyworthpunch on Aug 9, 2011 9:19 AM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Well.........
some of us have been preaching that line for some time. It make a hella lot of sense. Particulalry when you realize that is the formula used by most teams………
Sometimes the answer is just what it appears....
..and their isn’t a bunch of spy-vs-spy going on. There weren’t that many teams interested in trading for Orton at our price. Miami was somewhat interested but it fell through. At that point, everybody pretty much had their QB. Nothing more, nothing less in my opinion.
"Pain don't hurt" - Swayze (Road House) -- We miss you man!
I always liked
pick your adventure books
Brad James
Follow me on Twitter
With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!
by the new Bradfather on Aug 9, 2011 2:45 PM MDT up reply actions
Neil O'Donnell and Trent Dilfer
O’Donnel and Dilfer fit Keyworthpunch’s description of a don’t screw up QB taking an otherwise talented team to a championship. Orton is at least that good.
If I can't have high expectations that succeed, I''d rather have high expectations and be disappointed than have low expectations and be resigned to losing.
by OrangeandBluesBros on Aug 9, 2011 10:04 AM MDT up reply actions
Dilfer was far worse than "don't screw up"
He was “only screw up occassionally”, and that was still good enough that DEF. Dilfer’s reputation as a “game manager” is totally undeserved… he was an interception machine.
Orton is 1000% better than Dilfer was… which means our DEF doesn’t need to be nearly as good for us to be competitive.
we don't have the steelers defense
or the ravens for that matter
Some days, you're the pigeon. Some days, you're the statue.
The Good, the Bad and the utterly ridiculous
The Good
Every day the defense is giving me more and more reasons to be excited. The only fear is that we don’t seem to be hearing anything about the run D. Is this being glossed over, or is there simply not enough to go on yet.
The Bad
What is with all the injuries that are just bad enough to make guys miss practice time. I know we haven’t had any major injuries yet (thank God), but the number of guys being held out for tweaks and bumps is worrisome when the practice time has been so truncated this offseason.
The utterly ridiculous:
Kyle Orton’s goal is not to play any more in the preseason than necessary for the offense to be sharp
So, most of Bronco country doesn’t want you start, you’ve missed most OTAs due to the lockout, you need your O-line to gel quickly, and you want to get off the field as quickly as possible thought the preseason? Wow, what an inspiration.
“Whether you had the OTA reps or not, you’re No. 1 goal still is to get your best player into the first game,”
You’re right, we do want Champ on the field for that first game. Unfortunately, I think KO was referring to himself. Where is this new cockiness coming from? He would have been far better off to keep his mouth shut the last couple of days. He’s in danger of alienating the fence-sitters in this debate.
Mediocrity is like a lollipop: lick it once and you'll suck forever.
by improv88 on Aug 9, 2011 10:01 AM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Contrary to popular belief...
Orton is actually fairly dangerous when healthy. I think that plays into his statements about the preseason — everyone knows our O-Line is playing poorly right now…why would he want to be behind it in games that don’t matter against a defense from another team that wants to get their groove on all up in him?
I understand the sentiment that is a wussy thing to say, but there’s a flip side to that coin…it is pretty flipping wise.
"Bombs dropping down overhead. Underground. It's instilled to want to live." -EV
by sadaraine on Aug 9, 2011 10:05 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
It's definitely a wussy thing to say....
…although every first stringer feels the same….it’s just not a good thing to verbalize given Orton’s public relation battle.
"Pain don't hurt" - Swayze (Road House) -- We miss you man!
I’ll do the math.
Our O-line playing poorly + Orton is a statute = every team we face blitzes the crap out of Orton.
This is exactly what happened in 2009 after the Ravens exposed us. If I remember correctly, that didn’t end well for Denver.
"Well at least we picked a good year to suck" said Pat Bowlen after countersigning Von Miller's rookie contract.
Ryan was pissed about the Cowboys D performance...
…in the scrimmage. They may be pinning back their ears against Denver. I hope so because my biggest concern with Orton is when he is under pressure. Let’s see if he really is improving in a pressure situation.
"Pain don't hurt" - Swayze (Road House) -- We miss you man!
It carried over into 2010 as well.
Teams know how to beat Orton. We’ll see if 2011 is any different.
Learn how to dominate your league through a solid fantasy football value based drafting. A shameless plug for a fellow Broncomaniac!
What are you talking about? Orton is 5-17 as the starter since Royal beat San Diego in 2009 with his ST touchdowns.
Count me as suspicious of any QB that throws for 476 yards in a home game where we only score 13 total points and lose by two TDs.
The Orton is the answer contingent are confusing Orton’s fantasy football appeal with actual NFL football.
"Well at least we picked a good year to suck" said Pat Bowlen after countersigning Von Miller's rookie contract.
He's getting another shot, so I have to hope he changed somehow.
Or at least the team changed enough to carry his ass to victory :)
Learn how to dominate your league through a solid fantasy football value based drafting. A shameless plug for a fellow Broncomaniac!
This is the more expensive and shorter lived way to skin a cat.
I prefer the Payton Manning method. Get a top shelf QB and be good for a decade.
"Well at least we picked a good year to suck" said Pat Bowlen after countersigning Von Miller's rookie contract.
more busts than mannings though
Learn how to dominate your league through a solid fantasy football value based drafting. A shameless plug for a fellow Broncomaniac!
Why didn't I think of that?
Get a top shelf QB. It’s so simple. Quick, somebody tell EFX.
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
right! Go get a Payton Manning... duh
Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. DA
by Whidbey Bronco on Aug 9, 2011 9:49 PM MDT up reply actions
Reminds me of Brandon Marshall
21 catches 150 yards and we lose by 2+ tds
by Warren Todd on Aug 9, 2011 1:06 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
And Brandon probably was hell in the locker room after the game.
Orton is the king of hallow yards, but he is a good egg. BM was just cancer, and as it turns out, kind of crazy.
"Well at least we picked a good year to suck" said Pat Bowlen after countersigning Von Miller's rookie contract.
No, he is not a good egg.
A good egg doesn’t come out and basically tell the fans to kiss his ass.
Some days, you're the pigeon. Some days, you're the statue.
The fans spoke first in that regard
Just like Jake Plummer flipping off the fans. Are the fans anymore entitled to pull a BS move than the players? Usually what goes around, comes around. I really think it got blown out of proportion just like the Tebow comment that Woody hacked up. Kizla isn’t the sharpest tool in the shed, he’s just a tool.
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
My ship finally came in, but it was the Kobayashi Maru.
Follow me on Twitter @MHR_KaptainKirk
by KaptainKirk on Aug 9, 2011 4:57 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
I read the article,
and that is what I took from it. Did the fans speak first, or did his play speak first therefore allowing the fans to voice their displeasure? I’m pretty sure when he came into town he wasn’t getting ripped liked this. His poor play, his whining to the media (I won’t be a back up…) and now this jab at the fans. I disagree with you, respectfully, KK.
Some days, you're the pigeon. Some days, you're the statue.
I was referring to when they booed him at the Stadium in practice last year.
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
My ship finally came in, but it was the Kobayashi Maru.
Follow me on Twitter @MHR_KaptainKirk
actually he was dis'd regularly when he came to town.
Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. DA
by Whidbey Bronco on Aug 9, 2011 9:51 PM MDT up reply actions
exactly.
but that’s the thing. i wish kyle would get—like most folks do—that media hype is prevalent and it helps to play along a little bit. in fact, the main problem with orton fan relations-wise isn’t that he’s out of line with comments like those as much as he’s just maddeningly inept. it reminds me of griese—great guy, but always put on his sour face when the microphones got close. like it or not, QB is a PR position in the NFL to an extent—that’s part of the leadership involved—and it doesn’t hurt to kiss some babies and shake some hands once in awhile.
Why not
The fans have shown him nothing but contempt.
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
He wasn't even that good in Fantasy Football
Just saying…
"Bombs dropping down overhead. Underground. It's instilled to want to live." -EV
I find it telling that even last year when it became obvious that our passing game was the only way Denver could move at all...
Teams rarely dropped an additional man into coverage. They simply played base defense, stopped the pathetic attempts at running we had, and simply banked on Orton being unable to carry the team. The blueprint has been there for quite some time, and the only way Denver breaks away from it is to take the ball out of Orton’s hands.
Mediocrity is like a lollipop: lick it once and you'll suck forever.
I bet if you did a survey
w/ NFL defensive players and coaches, the last word they’ed use to descripe Orton with is dangerous.
Kmart the protector
Very true
No team has to specifically game plan to stop Orton. The common practice seems the opposite. Take away everything else and put the game in Orton’s hands. Works pretty well so far.
Mediocrity is like a lollipop: lick it once and you'll suck forever.
So you would rather KO keep his mouth shut?
Maybe tell Fox that he should sit out because TT is our future? WTF is your point here?
He's our starting QB until he isn't.
Same Drivel
by McGeorge
Not excited about our O-line other than Clady and Kuper. I keep reading that Beadles and Walton have not improved. I’m also reading the same thing I was saying when we drafted Orlando Franklin, that he proving to be a great run blocker that can’t pass protect for squat.
Keep reading where? More posts by mindless people who don’t know squadoosh about O Line play!
Once fans start this kind of BS, and it appears in a few posts some people start believing it. The starting O Line is good. I would put it somewhere in the top half of O lines in the league—not the division—in the league.
The problem is going to be the backups for the starting O Line. That’s what fans need to worry about. Beadles and Walton have improved and are very solid O Line players.
Now you can say you’ve been reading that they have gotten better and what you read was written by someone who actually gets O Line play.
How can you put our O-line in the top half?
Based on what? Last year’s results. They are starting two 2nd year guys who took their lumps last year..that’s not unexpected. But let’s see if they have improved before we say they are now one of the top half front lines in football. And starting a rookie tackle that is still learning how to pass protect. There is reason to be skeptical until they actually show they have improved from last year in an actual game. Let’s not just hand them the title of most improved O-line yet.
"Pain don't hurt" - Swayze (Road House) -- We miss you man!
Or based on snorting K. That’s my guess.
"Well at least we picked a good year to suck" said Pat Bowlen after countersigning Von Miller's rookie contract.
I will say this. I thought Beadles really improved in 2010 once he was moved to LG and got some snaps under his belt. Horrible RT, but decent LG.
I was not impressed by Walton in 2010 and I didn’t notice any improvement. I thought he looked better in September than later in the year. I’m worried about JD more than Zane.
"Well at least we picked a good year to suck" said Pat Bowlen after countersigning Von Miller's rookie contract.
How can you say that!
I didn’t just have a dream one night that the Broncos O Line was better than half the O Line’s in the league.
I watched film of the O Line play by most of the other teams and compared it to what Denver was doing in the last few of games of the season.
The Broncos have a lot of problems. Quarterback problems, running back problems. play calling, and of course the defense. Their timing on offense was mostly terrible. Backs were late to the holes, Orton took a long time to find receivers, and that’s not the worst of it. If Orton got sacked or a back was stopped early, according to the fans it was the O Line’s fault. Not that often. The O Line can’t hold back a pro defense for more than a three to five clicks. If the play hasn’t developed and advantage taken of what the defense has given up, then no O Line on the planet can overcome that.
How many of those things got fixed, we’ll just have to wait and see. However, the O Line was the one thing that wasn’t broken the second half of last year.
In fact, for a comment to really flame. I think the O Line was the best functioning part of the entire Denver team.
Denver should have won more games than they did, and they would have, if it weren’t for the defensive mistakes that were all too common, and the offensive execution falling off the rails from time to time
Other than Walton, I thought the O-line improved a bit in 2010. They were so poorly coached it was hard to tell what was wrong in Denver. A lot of everything.
Losing Ryan Harris will end up badly for Denver. Franklin will be a downgrade from Ryan Harris. Walton needs to step us his game.
The WRs were better than the O-line in 2011. But maybe you are right that the O-line was better than most other units. I’m not picking the D or ST for those honors. Not picking our TEs or RBs either. Maybe just WRs and QBs over the O-line.
"Well at least we picked a good year to suck" said Pat Bowlen after countersigning Von Miller's rookie contract.
WR
I agree the WR guys did a good job at bailing out Denver on many occasions.
We’ll see how the O Line does. I’m not disappointed with Harris leaving. He was not ready to be a backup.
When the Beadles first replaced Harris I was surprised because it’s tough for a rookie to step into the RT spot over a relatively young veteran. I watched a few games and thought Beadles was doing a good job. I guess I was in the minority.
I took some tape of Harris’s earlier games before his injury, the comeback games he played in last year and Beadles time at RT. After watching the tape, I felt like Harris was either too injured to be coming back or he had lost a bit over the years. After an injury, it’s hard to tell why a player never fully returns to a high level of play. When Harris was at his best Beadles might not have been able to move him off his starting spot. But after the injury Beadles was much better.
Beadles and Harris are friends. They spent a lot of time together during the summer working out and hanging out. It seems Harris has fully recovered and is very motivated. The Eagles deal took a lot of sack on Harris’s part. It’s very risky. If he plays well, he’s back, and he’s looking at a good 3 or 4 year deal. If he can’t replace Justice after Justice gets over his injury, then Harris is looking at a backup spot for whatever remains of his career.
I don’t see the loss of Harris as a major event. Give Franklin and little time, and I doubt most fans will miss Harris. Franklin has a mean stick up his ass. I said once before I didn’t know what Franklin’s momma did to him to make him look so bad ass unhappy, but whatever it was it’s going to work out well for Denver.
I'm not so sure Harris would have been Franlin's backup
if he had stayed. He might have left because he thought he might become the backup not too far down the line, though.
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
Franklin might very well become a starter for us for seasons to come but the odds are simply against it. I think the smart move would have been to keep Harris (if possible) and hedge our bet.
Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. DA
by Whidbey Bronco on Aug 9, 2011 9:58 PM MDT up reply actions
agreed on harris. I'm REALLY disappointed we didn't keep him and le Franklin come in if he got hurt.
Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. DA
by Whidbey Bronco on Aug 9, 2011 9:54 PM MDT up reply actions
Harris Salary
Harris’s one year deal with the Eagles is for approximately $650K. Harris is a free agent again after this season. I think he’s looking for million a year over 3 or 4 years with probably two year guaranteed.
Denver had little salary cap space and wanted to pay Harris less than the $650K (with signing bonus) that he had made last year, and they didn’t want to give him a multi-year deal. I think Harris would have been a good deal at $650, even if he sat on the bench. But I don’t think he would have beat out Franklin for the RT.
Hochstein makes $865K. Kuper makes $7 million. Beadles makes $400K. Anyone think Kuper plays 17.5 times better than Beadles? Anyone think Hochstein plays twice as good as Beadles? Pro sports salaries are screwed up. No question.
Harris Salary
Link?
by Calikula on Aug 9, 2011 10:39 PM PDT
Calikula, them’s the facts, but I’m open to revision if you can find something that’s valid that contradicts the numbers I put in the post.
I actually thought I'd read that Harris got a bigger offer in Denver
But turned it down for a chance of more playing time in Philly…
"Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space."
"It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes" Douglas Adams
by orange&blue_aussie on Aug 10, 2011 3:04 AM MDT up reply actions
From what I saw on film....
I agree. The O-line became a whipping boy for the mistakes of the backs and Orton. The started playing better in the second half, but the running backs and Orton did not step up. I don’t think that will happen this year, if Orton does not produce he will be benched and EFX will not allow Moreno to use the O-line as an excuse.
by Keyworthpunch on Aug 9, 2011 9:58 PM MDT up reply actions
I disagree
The running game was opening up. When Tebow got the start he changed the dynamic. This IS NOT a bad thing. Just what happened. If you look at the run stats for the Broncos, overall they improved but the backs got fewer touches and less yards. Tebow did add a new dynamic but by doing so did not add as many yards as he did shift them from the RB’s to the QB. Again, this is not a bad thing unless you are a RB who wants touches. Prior to Tebow taking over you can see as the season went on our backs yards per game and per carry were improving. Of course this is not consistent and arguments can be made. This is my opinion but I did research and checked each games stats. There is a post from me earlier this spring where I detailed my research and conclussions.
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
Other Commentary
If anyone wants to post links to articles about the O Line, I’ll read them and post my comments.
I don’t have time to search for every article. I try to keep up with all the O Line articles I can find, but I probably missed a few.
Like what you say, FormerUMP
but if you click on reply at the bottom of the post you’re responding to it’ll be easier to see who you’re responding to (because your post will be threaded under it).
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
Usually Do
Spock, I usually do hit reply but it was an after thought to an earlier post, and I was late for an appointment, so I took the easy way out.
I need to focus, man up and just get it done.
O Line Salaries
I guess salaries are interesting so here’s the O Line Salaries for this year. The amount a player receives in any single year is complicated due to signing bonuses, incentives and other stuff. With some players the salary figure for the contract period is sometimes only partially guaranteed. When Beadles contract is done in 3 more years, I expect he’ll be worth 4 yrs at $12 mil.
Chris Kuper 6 yrs $28 mil
Ryan Clady 5 yrs $14.5 mil last yr of contract
Orlando Franklin 4 yrs $4.3 mil
Zane Beadles 4 yrs $4.2 mil
Russ Hochstein 2 yrs $3.5 mil
JD Walton 4 yrs $2.5 mil
Eric Olsen 4 yrs $1.9 mil
Stanley Daniels 3 yrs $1.2 mil
Jeff Byers 3 yrs $1.06 mil
Chris Oldenburg 1 yr $405K
ProFootball Focus
Here’s a repost by British Bronco
I’ve posted these grades from Profootballfocus before, but will do so again
1. Clady: +13.8 – 9th best tackle overall
2. Beadles: +6.3 – 19th overall guard (his tackle rating was -13.3 so lets not play him there again!)
3. Walton: -15.8 – 54th overall center (out of 57!)
4. Kuper: -7.8 – 101st guard (good pass blocking, very poor run blocking)
5. Harris: -0.9 45th tackle overall.
While initially these grades for Walton look very bad he started getting positive grades after week 12 so there is hope for him.
When I posted these stats at MHR last week some people pointed out that Kuper should be a better run blocker in Fox’s system. Lets hope so because right now he looks a weak link.
I think cautious optimism for the future of our OL is the sensible poliicy for now.
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