An Attempt at a Rational Reaction to Last Night's Game

by maximus1212 on Sep 13, 2011 10:54 AM MDT

Last night was clearly a tough loss for our team and for all of us. There are many different angles that I could take in exploring what went wrong that I will forego for the sake of brevity. My one thought that I was left with is this:

After supporting the idea that Orton should be our starter for this year to allow Tebow time to develop, I have flipped positions based upon the entirety of the offensive performance last night.

What led up to my change of opinion was that last night I observed that Orton has not made any sort of a jump this year beyond his performance level the past two years. He can move the ball, but has a great amount of difficulty getting touchdowns in the red zone. I concede that he is a much more polished QB than Tebow, and he is able to move it between the 20s better than Tebow (and that the line played atrociously last evening and that our running game was laughable), but at some point we have to look to score TD's.

Tebow may not be the guy who can score TDs. He may not be a great pro QB. Frankly, I have a lot of questions about whether or not he can ever be an effective passer, but my reasons for changing to Tebow are simple and two-fold (please note, they are not based upon my confidence that Tebow will amount to anything):

Orton is at his level of potential, and that level lacks three of the most important characteristics of a great QB: red zone efficiency, 3rd down efficiency, and resilience in the 4th quarter.
Tebow is not yet at his level of potential. If he starts and does well, we know that we can move forward with him. If not, we can draft one of the excellent QB prospects that are expected to leave college this year.

Please feel free to fire away, but also please be charitable to one another in the comments and realize that we are all cheering for the same team. Level-headedness, although extremely difficult to achieve, is an ally in frustrating circumstances. This is my humble attempt to work from reason rather than emotion. What are your thoughts?

This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR

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Comments

Plus he has control issues, as in;

Can’t control the ball and just drops it for absolutely NO reason. That was a 14pt swing regardless of penalties, fumbles, blocked punts, etc.. That one was the KILLER.

Id rather fail w/Tebow than be average/mediocre w/Orton.

"Attitude reflects Leadership" Hogblog...aka KSM

by Hogblog on Sep 13, 2011 11:09 AM MDT reply actions 1 recs

That one sealed it for sure

"It's all over fat man!"
-Tom Jackson
"No use crying over spilled milk"
-Orton's rallying war cry

by Calikula on Sep 13, 2011 11:20 AM MDT up reply actions

No QB if going to "efficient" on 3rd down when they face an average of 3rd and 10.6

like the Broncos did last night.

Win the individual battles at the LOS - all else flows from that.

by DE_BroncoFan on Sep 13, 2011 11:24 AM MDT reply actions

the fact that we converted 6 of 13 3rd downs is pretty impressive given the average distance

Win the individual battles at the LOS - all else flows from that.

by DE_BroncoFan on Sep 13, 2011 11:26 AM MDT up reply actions

actually the raiders gave us a couple of those conversions with their penalties

"It's all over fat man!"
-Tom Jackson
"No use crying over spilled milk"
-Orton's rallying war cry

by Calikula on Sep 13, 2011 11:44 AM MDT up reply actions

Read the recap

25 total first downs 17 by passing, 2 by rush leaves 6 by penalty. In the play by play I can only find four. First one takes us from a first and 10 to a first and 10 deep in our own territory and has little impact. Second takes us from a second and long to a first and 10 – may have had an impact may not. Third one we were in a second and 1, McGahee gains two and Oakland is penalized 15 yards for personal foul. Fourth is the only ‘give me’ of the bunch – third and 10, Orton passes incomplete but is hit late. By my count only one third down conversion by penalty – but a whole bunch of long yardage by our own penalties.

by Flunkie on Sep 13, 2011 12:04 PM MDT up reply actions

only one by penalty

Here are the Broncos distances to go on 3rd down last night with result if converted.
15, 5, 15, 10 (converted), 15, 10, 12 (converted), 10 (converted by penalty), 5, 2 (converted), 19, 6 (converted), 10 (converted), 4 (converted – TD)

Win the individual battles at the LOS - all else flows from that.

by DE_BroncoFan on Sep 13, 2011 12:27 PM MDT up reply actions

No excuses, Orton cost us the game last night.

Please pull your head out of your ass Kyle, please.

by ElwayFanJ on Sep 13, 2011 11:46 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs

"The Drop"

"It's all over fat man!"
-Tom Jackson
"No use crying over spilled milk"
-Orton's rallying war cry

by Calikula on Sep 13, 2011 11:57 AM MDT up reply actions

Definately the drop

But worse – then he forced the defense to allow the Raiders to cover 65 yards in just two plays for the touchdown ….. that damned Orton

by Flunkie on Sep 13, 2011 12:05 PM MDT up reply actions

Score 16-13 Broncos with a chance to lead

at least tie. No one near him and he drops the ball. The game ended with a 3 point difference. Im not sure how else to break it down for you

"It's all over fat man!"
-Tom Jackson
"No use crying over spilled milk"
-Orton's rallying war cry

by Calikula on Sep 13, 2011 12:10 PM MDT up reply actions

That play is a game changer.

We had all the momentum and then Orton chokes it away, demoralizes the team.

-Champ Bailey's calendar goes straight from March 31st to April 2nd; no one fools Champ Bailey-
-The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese -

by Automatik41 on Sep 13, 2011 1:26 PM MDT up reply actions

What makes you say flat out that Tebw can't pass between the 20's......

I’m so damn sick of you experts ripping Tebow for what he cannot do without giving him a chance to play and prove everyone wrong. TEBOW WOULD HAVE WON THAT GAME LAST NIGHT PERIOD. Most other teams are playing rookie QB’s with some success. The day’s of a rookie QB sitting on the bench are over boy’s Wake up!!!

by McManJoe on Sep 13, 2011 11:25 AM MDT reply actions 1 recs

Lol. Did you see Tebow trying to throw while getting killed in preseason???

Starting him with Franklin protecting his blindside is asking for disaster. Until the OL gets their sht together there is NO way i want to feed Tebow to the wolves and a schedule chalk-full of viscious DEs. No thank you.

Ill ride the pine with Orton until Franklin (and the OL in general) improves.

"It is better to be rougly right than precisely wrong." - John Maynard Keynes

"Excellence can be obtained; if you care more than others think is wise…risk more than others think is safe…dream more than others think is practical…expect more than others think is possible." - Anonymous Author

by Alexander Wall on Sep 13, 2011 12:41 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions

Did he play with the one’s?

I'm gonna call him "Ort" cuz he's never on.

by grind_core on Sep 13, 2011 6:02 PM MDT up reply actions

"and he is able to move it between the 20s better than Tebow"

1. I’m not an expert and nowhere do I claim to be.
2. If you’re going to attack my argument, please make sure that you understand it correctly. I didn’t say that he “can’t pass between the 20’s”, but that Orton is better at it than he is. I think that there is statistical proof of this.

The bad thing about doing nothing is that when you get tired, you can't stop and rest.

by maximus1212 on Sep 13, 2011 2:22 PM MDT up reply actions

I continue to disagree

I’m not a Orton lover or a Tebow basher but I am really frustrated with this argument. Orton may not be the right guy but the points you highlighted (redzone, 3rd downs etc) are entirely a product of our O-line. We can’t run the ball which makes us one dimensional. We’re one dimensional which shows our hand on 3rd down and goal-to-go situations and, once again, our O-line can’t handle the blitz consistently. Hense, we crucify the QB! It’s root cause analysis. The observed issue is bad QB production but the root cause is something entirely different. Why aren’t we screaming for Lance Ball to be our bellcow? Moreno and Mcgahee aren’t getting it done, they must be the problem.

Putting Tebow in just doesn’t make sense to me. He’s inexperienced and PROVED he can’t go through his progressions. He has happy feet and fights the urge to run. How would this be better? Its frustrating to see the ball sail out of bounds on 3rd down but, let’s be honest, it was probab ly be the right choice.

Rodgers is a mobile QB. He uses his athletisism to buy time and allow the play to develop and then uses his ACCURACY to complete the play. That’s not what Tebow will use his talents to do.

We need to fix the problem that is preventing our best QB from being effective. If that’s 12 or 22 personnel or learning the bootleg, that’s what we should be doing. Not putting a different person into the same broke car.

by Kdo09 on Sep 13, 2011 11:26 AM MDT via mobile reply actions

pregressions

Don’t win games. Tebow Does!

by hydrowardaddy7 on Sep 13, 2011 11:57 AM MDT up reply actions

wow

I actually think you and many others truly believe this way.

by Kdo09 on Sep 13, 2011 12:05 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions

Yep - all one of them in his NFL career

He has a great deal of promise and potential – but in the NFL he is not yet a proven winner. Sure hoping he does turn out that way but not willing to rewrite history just to feel good.

by Flunkie on Sep 13, 2011 12:08 PM MDT up reply actions

Neither is Orton

"It's all over fat man!"
-Tom Jackson
"No use crying over spilled milk"
-Orton's rallying war cry

by Calikula on Sep 13, 2011 12:11 PM MDT up reply actions

no - Chuck Norris does!

Win the individual battles at the LOS - all else flows from that.

by DE_BroncoFan on Sep 13, 2011 12:33 PM MDT up reply actions

I agree with a lot of your points

I think that the core of my argument, Kd, is that the three areas I point out are observable over a two year sample, plus last night. I’m not arguing that Tebow will necessarily perform better than Orton, just that we know what we have with him and it isn’t moving us forward. Therefore, it makes sense to go ahead and look towards the future. If that’s TT, great. If he doesn’t show marked improvement over this season, then we look toward the draft.

The bad thing about doing nothing is that when you get tired, you can't stop and rest.

by maximus1212 on Sep 13, 2011 2:26 PM MDT up reply actions

I didn't see Orton go through progressions last night either

up until the TD scoring drive where he spread the ball between receivers. Orton either locked onto first read(be it Lloyd or Decker) many times and did not go through progressions to the open receivers. It was first read or check-down.

by diehardbronco2 on Sep 13, 2011 6:13 PM MDT up reply actions

Best desription of Orton I've seen

from Don Banks at SI.com
When I’m watching Kyle Orton play quarterback, I can’t help but think I’m watching the league’s modern-day Steve DeBerg, who was once aptly described by his head coach, Bill Walsh, as "just good enough to get you beat.’’

by golfsnow on Sep 13, 2011 11:32 AM MDT reply actions

Ouch

but thats what it is starting to look like

They say the cool is all over me..

by Teboner on Sep 13, 2011 11:33 AM MDT up reply actions

"starting to look like"???

Its looked like that since he came here from Chicago.

Please pull your head out of your ass Kyle, please.

by ElwayFanJ on Sep 13, 2011 11:56 AM MDT up reply actions

you are reading too much into my exact words. but ill bite

its different then and now because then.. he hadnt had a chance yet. now he has really had his chance(s)…

They say the cool is all over me..

by Teboner on Sep 13, 2011 12:03 PM MDT up reply actions

Observations from the game (not just orton, but a lot of Orton)

1. Decker looked as smooth as silk on that punt return. I like his return style, downhill and let your blockers do most of the work.

2. For all the problems with the OLine last night, Orton killed some pretty decent drives with his play. The fumble for sure, but he also missed a wide open Royal a couple of times, one within the OAK 30. Also a lot of dirt balls, even with no pressure.

3. Seemed to me KO played better when Lloyd went out. He spread the ball around to everyone and just didn’t stare down BL.

4. Defense seemed almost too aggressive. I look at the plays on that last drive for OAK to kill the clock. The OLBs were going way too far down the line for those toss plays. Stay home and look for holes and plug the holes.

5. ESPN needs to put Trent Dilfer back in whatever hole they pulled him out of. That was about the worst piece of crap color commentary I have seen in while. Very biased towards the Raiders, he was up Woodson’s butt all night (I didn’t realize grabbing an arm and not looking for the ball was perfect DB technique).

Aku, Soku, Zan

by haj_saitou on Sep 13, 2011 12:28 PM MDT reply actions