The Recurring problem
Our interior O-line has been a problem since McD decided to draft two O-lineman, Zane Beadles and J.D. Walton. Its not just a coincidence that we had trouble running the ball since they have started. Both of them don't seem to have the strength needed in run support and are often pushed back at the POA.
These two need to be put on blast because they have been a big liability and people have noticed. As much as I think Orton isn't playing well, these two have been just as bad if not more. Dont just take my word for it, Pro Football Focus ranks them each in the lowest of their positions.
8 months ago
ShyandObese
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Walton seems better than Beadles to me
I have no evidence to support my believe, but it seems that Beadles is a little slow and not very powerful. Walton is less consistent though.
Yeah, they will get better...I think having 2 totally different schemes in 2 years, ebing thrown in the deep end...they have done well.
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59-14 aint spilt milk...just saying!
Beadles is a Weak Ass
Walton seems better than Beadles to me
I have no evidence to support my believe, but it seems that Beadles is a little slow and not very powerful. Walton is less consistent though.
Beadles is as strong as most O Line guys in the NFL— that aren’t on the juice!
You want Beadles to be stronger and faster,encourage him to use the roids.
Thankfully Beadles has more integrity than that. I wish everyone in the NFL did.
by FormerUMP on Sep 28, 2011 7:46 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
He needs to do something because he sucks
at run blocking. Ill give him pass blocking because he seems to be doing alright in that department.
Beadles Sucks
He needs to do something because he sucks
at run blocking. Ill give him pass blocking because he seems to be doing alright in that department.
by ShyandObese on Sep 28, 2011 6:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, everyone gets to have an opinion whether they know anything or not. Beadles, like Walton, and all O Line guys have been evaluated by the Broncos and by outside knowledgeable coaches. Walton and Beadles are doing a pretty good job based on their 2nd year status.
Fans want some hulk like characters on the line that blow all the D line guys back five yds off every snap. Get real, this is the NFL. The O Linie guys are the best in the world and the D Line’s they face are equally as good.
Small mistakes have cost the Broncos two games—not major problems on the O line. The D line and D overall have made many mistakes and seldom are the fans calling for immediate replacements.
by FormerUMP on Sep 28, 2011 10:56 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
You got two things right
Beadles, like Walton, and all O Line guys have been evaluated by the Broncos and by outside knowledgeable coaches.
You hear what your outside coaches had to say in the off season? “Waltons ceiling is low almost no room to grow” “Beadles struggles to show functional strength”
Hulk like character?huh? This isn’t a comic book the broncos need some lineman that can run block and these two individuals have not shown that. “The other guy is good to” gets old after 16 games. Since last season these two have had there ups and downs (mostly downs).
Small mistakes have costed the Broncos wins but that doesn’t mean that their O-line is OK. We have struggled to run the ball ever since these two have been our starters. I dont think I need to explain the importance of running the ball but then again maybe I do…
by ShyandObese on Sep 29, 2011 12:38 AM MDT up reply actions
you are one of the few, FormerUMP.......
…..who actually seem to know something about offensive line play.
My impression so far has been that teams — specifically Oakland and Tennessee — placed a heavy emphasis on taking away our running game, which made us one dimensional and allowed them to tee off on Orton. It’s a strategy that’s been used effectively in the past and teams will keep using it until we burn them. Unfortunately, we’re extremely short at receiver, which has hampered us, or else we might have shown a little more in the passing game.
I view most complaints about the OL as just a proxy for whatever else that ails the team. The current complaints about the OL seem to be the blame game du jour. There’s also a hint of let’s go after another McDaniel’s draftee. The Ayers & Moreno are busts comments in preseason appear to have been motivated by that.
******* George Santayana described fanaticism as -- "redoubling your effort after you've forgotten your aim"
by Colinski on Sep 29, 2011 1:20 AM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
Disagree on Walton
Go over and read Doc Bear’s post today on IAOFM, He reviewed Walton’s last game…. and he reviewed every play. Beadles……maybe, but he was a later round pickup than Walton. Walton is improving, and I think will be fine. Beadles…reserve judgement until the end of the season.
Beadles was picked up in the 2nd round before Walton
Im talking about more than one game by the way.
Was he really???
Well, that could be a problem for McD’s legacy.
Regarding more than 1 game…if there is continued improvement, the last game is really the only one that matters.
It’s worth noting that our offensive line would be even worse had we not drafted them. We had to rebuild the line no matter what.
So then the question becomes, could we have drafted better offensive linemen at their draft positions?
In hindsight, the question is usually yes, but then again, it usually is. But with the information known at the time, Walton was rated pretty highly. I think Beadles was seen as a bit of a reach, however.
I think the remaining blame has to go to Shanahan’s refusal to continue building the team. He was like a guy throwing planks off a ship to make it go faster. You might succeed in the short-term, but sooner or later, you sink.
I believe we’ve got a pretty functional line that should improve later in the year, and I’m hopeful we’ll get one more elite or good-starter level guard or tackle to either upgrade Beadles, or right tackle with moving Franklin inside (which might be EFX’s plan if we start Tebow).
I dont see how any of this is shanahans fault.
I don’t think your first statement is fair because we could very well have picked up veteran talent. Walton was not a bad pick up but Im still skeptical. Beadles doesn’t do enough in the run game. I to believe Franklin could make an excellent guard.
veteran
You can’t keep picking up veteran talent year after year. They last 2-3 years at most, there’s ramp-up, and then they start to decay, and that’s while other younger offensive linemen are getting older and older. You have to draft at every position.
You have to when your faced with the scenario of two starting rookie O-lineman
Anyone could tell you before the season that it wasn’t a good idea. You sign a veteran while the rookie sits and learns. Packers are doing that with their guy it it will work well. Raiders did it with Veldheer to.
by ShyandObese on Sep 29, 2011 12:59 AM MDT up reply actions
The O line was the best in the NFL as far as pass pro goes in Shanny's last year
what he didnt have was a running back. We went through a redonkulous amount of backs that year. But the O line that year was very good. They allowed the fewest sacks in the NFL
"It's all over fat man!"
-Tom Jackson
"When John Elway is standing in lava with a football, he will stay there and sink until you're open"
-Seanbaby
They were old. It was Ben Hamilton’s last year before he turned into a concussion machine. Weigmann was a veteran replacement of Nalen.
Thats two old guys, but Clady was a rook and Kuper was in his 3rd year
Shanny always had good lines, he would have built them again
"It's all over fat man!"
-Tom Jackson
"When John Elway is standing in lava with a football, he will stay there and sink until you're open"
-Seanbaby
Drafting O Line Guys
It’s worth noting that our offensive line would be even worse had we not drafted them. We had to rebuild the line no matter what.
So then the question becomes, could we have drafted better offensive linemen at their draft positions?
Exactly, the O Line was rebuilt from the draft. Anyone can draft better in hindsight. This board is full of hindsight geniuses.
The O Line picks were very good overall, and all of them will continue to improve. Denver’s O Line is very young in NFL years—give them a few minutes to mature.
While we wait for them to mature we get a bunch of L's on our record
beadles was a reach in every way. If someone said before the draft he would be picked that high in the second they would call that a dumb move. Veldheer got picked on spot after and turned out great. He had the measurables to back up the spot.
Hindsight BS
While we wait for them to mature we get a bunch of L’s on our record
beadles was a reach in every way. If someone said before the draft he would be picked that high in the second they would call that a dumb move. Veldheer got picked on spot after and turned out great. He had the measurables to back up the spot.
by ShyandObese on Sep 28, 2011 6:59 PM PDT up reply actions
So toughsh**. They’ll be some L’s on the board. Big deal. It’s going to take Denver 3 to 4 years to rebuild. Get used to it. If they don’t improve this year over last year, and then show more improvement next season, then you have something to whine about it. Until then consider what’s going on as expected.
You didn’t read the scouting reports on Beadles. You think the Broncos were the only team that intended to draft him? Your hindsight drafting is certainly excellent. Just as soon as their is a league that uses hindsight drafting, you’ll make a great scout for them.
Every single guy that gets drafted has someone in the media, on a blog or somewhere else on the planet that says the draft position or the pick was a dumb move. So what?
So toughsh**. They’ll be some L’s on the board. Big deal.
I don’t even know what to say to this. It is a big deal if you care enough I guess.
the fact that they have not improved this year over last year is the reason I’m writing this post.
I did read the scouting reports and here are some tidbits all from different sources for you
“He does not possess enough physical skills to merit anything more than a Day Two flier.”
“Lacks the athleticism to excel as a tackle. Lacks the strength to excel as a guard.”
my favorite:
Beadles is a classic ‘tweener’. He was a very good left tackle at Utah, but wasn’t facing the type of athletic defensive ends that he’ll see in the pros. His versatility certainly boosts his stock; teams love players that can play multiple positions on the offensive line. However, he also doesn’t project as a starter at any position.
Its not hindsight at all you can look everywhere around the net. Beadles was a 4th round prospect not a 2nd round prospect. Knowshon Moreno is a great example to use you hindsight BS excuse. This is not because he was clearly over drafted.
by ShyandObese on Sep 29, 2011 12:50 AM MDT up reply actions
Internet Crap on Beadles
Your quoted scouting information comes from DraftAce exactly where I said you were getting your info from. It’s called INTERNET CRAP and there is plenty of it. McD didn’t make the decision to draft Beadles and Walton by himself.
There were a dozen of PROFESSIONAL scouting reports done on both players by people inside and outside of the Bronco’s organization. Those reports were compared to reports on dozens of other O Line guys. Then all of the information along with hundreds of hours of film are analyzed by the entire coaching and scouting staff.
According to you, they are all morons. I just can’t understand why you don’t have a job in Pro Ball, especially since you care so much.
The NFL is a business. Everyone that works in the league cares because it’s how they make their living. They want to keep making a living, so they bust their asses to figure out how to win. Winning means more money, longer contracts and some job security in a shaky business.
If Fox thought that the O Line—Beadles and Walton particularly—were the cause of the Broncos two close losses, they would be replaced.
If you’re pinning your hopes and dreams for W’s on the changing the O Line, you’re going to in for a long wait.
Running backs, a new QB and a few more D guys are going to come far sooner.
The Tebow thing needs to get resolved. I don’t think McD wanted Tebow. I suspect that was a front office marketing move. Now it’s a logistical problem.
Buck up there maybe a few more L’s in close games before the turn around gets done. The Broncos are much more competitive this year than they were last year. Things are moving in the right direction, and my bet is they will continue to improve over the next two seasons when Denver becomes a legit play off team.
You really have nothing to support your case While I have dozens of sources
I googled Beadles scouting report and took a piece from each site (3 different sites) None of them said he was a good run blocker.
McD has a history of reaching for players.
PFF has both Beadles and Walton listed as the two worst players in their respected positions.
Our running game has a lot to do with our success. These two players have a lot to do with our running game. Of course they are not the only problem but they are a glaring one.
As far as the Tebow thing it has nothing to do with this. That has been beaten all season and it doesn’t look like its going their.
The Tebow thing needs to get resolved. I don’t think McD wanted Tebow. I suspect that was a front office marketing move. Now it’s a logistical problem.
Ive never heard this before. I thought he fell in love with the guy in 09? Where did you get that information its interesting to say the least.
Supporting my Case
You think because you sight 3 internet dingdongs that makes it fact.
Anyone can get on the internet and say anything, and they do.
I base my opinions on four things—25 years of standing behind the D Line watching the big men play the game, playing the game myself for 10 years, breaking down the film play by play, and listening to the coaches. I have not heard Fox, McCoy, or Magazu say guys on the O Line needed replacing. When I do, I’ll consider your point of view.
3 ding dongs, coaches, PFF
and known of them know what they are talking about….but you do.
Why the hell would Fox or anyone in our organization talk openly about replacing one of our players? You realize how ridiculous that sounds. You expect Fox to tell us which of our players suck? Seriously? What world do you live in….You can wait all you want but our coaches will NEVER say something like that and I really hope I don’t need to explain why…
Your arguments have been weak and the only support you have is your opinion (which has been dragged around quite a bit in this post). What evidence do you have that Beadles has been performing well this season? I’m intrigued.
by ShyandObese on Sep 29, 2011 10:01 PM MDT up reply actions
This team simply isnt gonna win games without better play from the offensive line
at some point we will need to run the ball consistently you know. I thought the two would progress but it looks like im seeing much the same. I for one don’t want to wait around so all these guys can learn to play.
We went against some pretty tough lines so far this year
and were missing our feature back. The line isn’t that great, but this is part of the problem also
"It's all over fat man!"
-Tom Jackson
"When John Elway is standing in lava with a football, he will stay there and sink until you're open"
-Seanbaby
Thats true
Oakland has maybe the best D-line in the league. The titans always have had a pretty decent O-line and the Bengal have some behemoths to.
The problem I have is that I could have told you this a month ago. So we know they new they had a tough task ahead of them. I just expected more improvement from last year.
Would be nice to see some more push from them
but I think once we upgrade the RB position we should see improvement. I think we’ll get at least 100 on the ground this Sunday
"It's all over fat man!"
-Tom Jackson
"When John Elway is standing in lava with a football, he will stay there and sink until you're open"
-Seanbaby
Can't run the ball
This team simply isnt gonna win games without better play from the offensive line
at some point we will need to run the ball consistently you know. I thought the two would progress but it looks like im seeing much the same. I for one don’t want to wait around so all these guys can learn to play.
by ShyandObese on Sep 28, 2011 6:55 PM PDT reply actions
Can’t run the ball? Which teams has Denver played so far that have dominated the Broncos with their run game, and that was the winning difference? Oakland out rushed Denver by 150 yds but they won by 3 pts on 3 turnovers and multiple field goals. The Titans barely out rushed the Broncos, and barely won the game by again 3 pts. Denver had multiple chances to tie or win that game.
Running yardage isn’t the reason the Broncos are losing. There’s a lot of things that need fixing but the O Line ain’t one of them.
Denver had 1 okay game running the ball and two terrible ones
On top of all of last year. So yes we cant run the ball. Who cares how well the other team runs the ball? Thats indicative of our defense not our O-line lol.
Maybe I need to explain the importance of running the ball? The fact is we sucked at running the ball last year and it looks like we have carried that over to this year as well. Its unfortunate, but these two players have been a big reason why. If they do not improve over the season we need to look for some outside help.
by ShyandObese on Sep 29, 2011 12:56 AM MDT up reply actions
not neccessarily
why I think Beadles could use an upgrade, he will get better this year.
Not to mention I hear Oakland and Tennessee are both stout against the run, and 2 of the better teams in the league against the run. It’s a bit early to tell imho.
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A.To keep fans from grazing during the game."
Importance of Running the Ball
Maybe I need to explain the importance of running the ball? The fact is we sucked at running the ball last year and it looks like we have carried that over to this year as well. Its unfortunate, but these two players have been a big reason why. If they do not improve over the season we need to look for some outside help.
by ShyandObese on Sep 28, 2011 11:56 PM PDT up reply actions
So far you have shown no ability to explain anything to anyone.
My point was simple. The running game was not the cause of Denver’s two losses by 3 pts in each game.
Being able to run the ball varies in importance with the offensive scheme’s, the group of players a team has, their ability to score and their defenses ability to stop other teams.
Really. So if we could run the ball against the Raiders, that would not have helped?
What if we could run it against the Titans? Still nothing?
The running game opens up a lot of the offense. We have more manageable downs, the play action becomes a factor, time management and ball control etc….
Every offensive scheme in the NFL needs to run the ball. Its an important dynamic in every team. Thats not even questionable. Some teams rely more on the run than others, but it is very important to every NFL team, and yes, that includes us.
I don't know why the broncos don't go back to the zone blocking days
Elway should know this the best. He won two super bowls with it. I just don’t understand why the broncos stopped something that was working for more then a decade. It’s not like it doesn’t work anymore. The Texans make it work. Foster lead the NFL in rushing last year because of that. Even with him out the Texans are still running the ball well. Sound fimilar? And even the skins are doing the same thing.
Also it’s not like the broncos don’t have the o-linemen to do it either. It would actually benefit both Walton/Beadles because a zone blocking scheme makes up for what they lack. Also Moreno would benefit as well as Tebow. The perfect man for this job would be gary kubiak. I could see him getting let go if the Texans don’t make the playoffs this year. If that’d be the case, then the broncos better get him back. He would bring back a once proud running game of the denver broncos.
by tiderfootball09 on Sep 28, 2011 9:04 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Yeah I really loved the running game we had. The Steelers and Ravens were known for their defenses and we were always known for our running
I think its a trait that we should always possess.
by ShyandObese on Sep 28, 2011 10:32 PM MDT up reply actions
best running team since 95
"It's all over fat man!"
-Tom Jackson
"When John Elway is standing in lava with a football, he will stay there and sink until you're open"
-Seanbaby
I just think the whole offense would take off in a zone blocking scheme.
Get the running game going and do some bootleg—with Tebow, Orton isn’t athletic enough. Decker/Lloyd would love that. Fells/Thomas/Green would be perfect TEs. Moreno had some success in the zone blocking his rookie year. Plus it’s not that hard for RBs to adjust—I would think at least— because all it is the running back sticking his foot in the ground and going. It also helps the defense because I remember the broncos would have drives that would last about a quarter and half due to the running game.
It would be interesting to ask Fox and McCoy what they think of the zone blocking scheme and why they don’t do it.
by tiderfootball09 on Sep 29, 2011 10:01 AM MDT up reply actions
I rec, but it flagged. . .sorry.
I agree that Beadles and Walton could benefit from a switch to a pure zone blocking system. They are both highly intelligent (Beadles scored a 34 or something extremely high on his wonderlic, not that it is super accurate) which plays to the need of a zone system.
It doesnt flag when you do that
when you flag someone it goes to another screen and you have to say why you flagged the comment. It just looks like you flagged it when you re’d it
"It's all over fat man!"
-Tom Jackson
"When John Elway is standing in lava with a football, he will stay there and sink until you're open"
-Seanbaby
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