Elite?
by DenverWonder on Jan 2, 2012 11:00 AM MST
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Unfortunately for the Denver Broncos only 1.5 part of our team is what commentators call "elite". We have Champ Bailey and then our elite pass rush. An elite player and elite rush does not translate to success in the season or the playoffs. Look at the Philadelphia Eagles for example. They had a "Dream Team"and their season fell apart greatly due to poor coaching. The point is not only do you need elite plays to be successful, but you also need elite coaching to make a team be ten times better.
I believe that most Quarterbacks other than the elites would have a game like Tim Tebow. Due to the insane amount of running plays called the O-Line, Tebow, and the Wide Receivers could not get into a groove of the passing game. I will admit that some throws were bad, but in reality you cannot have every throw be a deep throw. The play calling would be Run, Run, Run, Punt, and then the next possession Run, Run, Deep Throw, Punt. We cannot run all over ELITE defenses in the playoffs, especially the Steelers next week. We need to throw more screens and slants to give Tebow and the WR's a feel for the game or else every play will look like the lousy first play. And what happens when McGahee and possibly Ball gets hurt? What do we do with no running game and a passing unit who isn't in the groove of the game yet? It will be almost impossible to get back in the game.
Although Tebow is behind MOST QB's I am a strong supporter of him and I do blame some of the game on the Coordinators and Fox. Imagine if Tebow got the throws and experience he needed. Imagine if Fox went for the 57 yd FG at half. We would have a completely different ball game, but our conservative game plan held us up. Teams have figured out how to stop us so Fox and McCoy better come up with a new good Offensive Game Plan, and FAST. I know Fox likes to be old school, but old school is not going to win games anymore. With defenses getting bigger, faster, and stronger you need to pass in this league to win a la the Colts with Manning of course, the Saints, the Packers, and of course the Patriots. Even teams known for their defenses have an elite QB to help lead them a la the Steelers and the 49ers if you agree with Harbaugh that Alex Smith is elite. In the NFL Draft people are not drafting running backs with the first pick; they are drafting quarterbacks. If we want to win in this league we need to have Tebow improve and give him the tools to do it. I know for a FACT that he will improve due to his incredible work ethic. Tebow has no ceiling so McCoy and Fox should think of Tebow as a gift not as a curse. We need to unleash Tebow and let him win games like he did in college; not protect him by being ultra conservative. The point of this article is that if we don’t change our game plan then we are going to be in a world of hurt on Sunday. But hey, at least we are in the playoffs.
This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR
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Fox and McCoy weren't running this much with Orton
So it’s not that they’re unwilling to change, it’s that they did change. Jake Delhomme was never handcuffed like this, nor any other QB Fox or McCoy have ever had. They have changed. They changed to protect Tebow after the Detroit game.
If we need change again, fans aren’t going to like the change. Because the change isn’t going to be that Tebow needs to throw more, rather that he either needs to find a way to throw more accurately or needs to be replaced until next year when he can.
I think Brady Quinn gives us our best chance to win next week (though not in the long term). I really very much doubt the FO would do this (like 30:1), but I think our best chance to win would be to utilize both Tebow and Quinn throughout the game.
More passes? You want McCoy to call more passes? I’d tell ‘em not to throw throw the ball unless Giselle Bundchen streaks onto the field and distracts opposing corners.
That is an interesting idea...
I think our best chance to win would be to utilize both Tebow and Quinn throughout the game.
It is better to keep silent, and appear to be wise, then to ramble on aimlessly and remove all doubt! The Wisest Man, Solomon.
by metalman5050 on Jan 2, 2012 12:47 PM MST up reply actions
Maybe you could even have Tebow in at fullback and whatnot
Play Quinn for like a quarter or a half and then once the Steelers go into the locker room to adjust, start bringing Tebow into the mix to screw ‘em up again. We’ve got to do something.
More passes? You want McCoy to call more passes? I’d tell ‘em not to throw throw the ball unless Giselle Bundchen streaks onto the field and distracts opposing corners.
Interesting, agreed, but unlikely idea...
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I bleed Orange & Blue. GB².
by Fabio Broncos on Jan 2, 2012 1:57 PM MST up reply actions
Yep, unlikely
More passes? You want McCoy to call more passes? I’d tell ‘em not to throw throw the ball unless Giselle Bundchen streaks onto the field and distracts opposing corners.
Rodney
I actually thought of this also. The Quinn and Tebow thing. No lie.
The best of the 2011-2012 season is yet to come.
LIAR!!! lol
The problem would be the fans, but starting Quinn would throw the Steelers for a loop after already preparing for Tebow all week. And I can’t see how it could be worse than the last two weeks. Anybody can hand off the ball four out of five times. If Brady screws up, you could have Tebow come in for His Time at the end of the game anyway.
More passes? You want McCoy to call more passes? I’d tell ‘em not to throw throw the ball unless Giselle Bundchen streaks onto the field and distracts opposing corners.
Start Brady in a four-wide set
And go no huddle. Next series, bring Tebow in with 2 TE’s and 6 Olinemen with McGahee and JJ in the back field and pound them with the run. Theres nothing to lose, just go out all crazy like and have fun. Maybe even throw the old Daffy Duck out there for S&G!
"You’re only great if you win something. I mean, Alexander wasn’t Alexander the Mediocre or Alexander the Average. He was Alexander the Great, and there’s a reason for it."-Shannon Sharpe
We share the same thoughts on this
Just go nuts. Try it all and see what works. I think you could really have the Steelers all befudled for half the game if nothing else. You could keep it to mostly safe plays and still find ways to get passing yards in the confusion.
More passes? You want McCoy to call more passes? I’d tell ‘em not to throw throw the ball unless Giselle Bundchen streaks onto the field and distracts opposing corners.
Treat it like it's a playoff game you mean?
Theres nothing to lose, just go out all crazy like
The best of the 2011-2012 season is yet to come.
Exactly, but too the extreme!
Throw the entire playbook out and just draw em up as we go! McCoy could finally be a genius!!
"You’re only great if you win something. I mean, Alexander wasn’t Alexander the Mediocre or Alexander the Average. He was Alexander the Great, and there’s a reason for it."-Shannon Sharpe
Seriousy. I mean how much worse could the offense get?
It’s not like we’re talking about blowing up a successful scheme. Keep running, just keep the defenders guessing what the QB might do and who it might be and all the sudden a few opportunities open back up.
More passes? You want McCoy to call more passes? I’d tell ‘em not to throw throw the ball unless Giselle Bundchen streaks onto the field and distracts opposing corners.
If we actually had a third QB on the roster
It might work. Pittsburgh’s defense is tough, but they flow to the ball hard. The run can beat them if we use misdirection. JJ needs to be getting more touches than Ball, in my opinion. Pound McGahee in the middle, then hit the edges with JJ. What got us in trouble yesterday was passing only to keep KC honest and more stupid penalties. The Clady holding call killed the most promising drive of the game for the Broncos. Whoever the imposter is, needs to bring back the real Ryan!
Instead of waiting to pass on second down, we need to throw on first down to mix it up and start out with some higher percentage throws. The throw Tebow made to Spencer Larsen when he got injured would be a good type of play to run against the Steelers. Thats the kind of throw McCoy needs to start out with to get Tebow and the recievers in a rhythm. Instead of starting Royal at the #2, they need to start DT. He is producing a lot more than Royal has in the past few weeks. Most of all, Tebow needs to settle down. During the losses, he is looking uneasy whenever he drops back to pass. He’s missing some reads because of it.
"You’re only great if you win something. I mean, Alexander wasn’t Alexander the Mediocre or Alexander the Average. He was Alexander the Great, and there’s a reason for it."-Shannon Sharpe
Why do we need a third?
Lose and we’re out for the year, so protecting two QBs isn’t a big issue compared to pulling out all stops to win.
I say go nuts, but conservatively. If it were me, I’d throw out a bunch of gimickie stuff (knowing full well that it won’t work for long) in attempt to score on the Steelers and then worry about how we win the next week if we get to the next week.
The element of surprise would be huge. I keep thinking of a couple packages where you’ve got Tebow and Quinn both standing in an otherwise empty backfield, each offset from center. Defense doesn’t know which one’s getting the ball. So do they play it in man coverage and daring to throw (as if Tebow’s taking it), or do they all the sudden respect the pass just a hair more? If Quinn takes the snap, Tebow can pass block. If Tebow takes the snap, he can either run it, or scramble a bit then pitch back to Quinn to hit a receiver over the middle.
Again, it wouldn’t work for long, as gimmicks genarlly don’t, but the element of surprise would likely put more points on the board this way than if we just run the same ’ol offense (especially againt the Steelers).
That pass you mentioned to Larsen, btw, pretty much had Spencer hung out to dry didn’t it? More short throws would be nice, I’m just not sure Tebow can complete many. I agree on DT over Royal. And it’s funny you call Clady a drive killer. That’s exactly what I said when it happened. It happened right after another first down, and even so, I knew we aren’t built to get 20 yards in three downs. Drive killer!
More passes? You want McCoy to call more passes? I’d tell ‘em not to throw throw the ball unless Giselle Bundchen streaks onto the field and distracts opposing corners.
See Above, Rodney!
My only concern is having them both on the field at the same time and getting them both knocked out of the game. Who is the emergency QB? But you are right, nothing to lose!
"You’re only great if you win something. I mean, Alexander wasn’t Alexander the Mediocre or Alexander the Average. He was Alexander the Great, and there’s a reason for it."-Shannon Sharpe
Not sure who the emergency guy is
More passes? You want McCoy to call more passes? I’d tell ‘em not to throw throw the ball unless Giselle Bundchen streaks onto the field and distracts opposing corners.
Fox would never do this, but it would be fun
We could finally show the league the true meaning of gimmick offense, we could call it “The WTF Option”!
There’s plenty of roster space, why not use it and call some peeps up!
"You’re only great if you win something. I mean, Alexander wasn’t Alexander the Mediocre or Alexander the Average. He was Alexander the Great, and there’s a reason for it."-Shannon Sharpe
Solid name lol
More passes? You want McCoy to call more passes? I’d tell ‘em not to throw throw the ball unless Giselle Bundchen streaks onto the field and distracts opposing corners.
I thought so too
You’re right, Timmy floated that pass to Larsen, but I liked the concept. Fake the run hard right, reverse out, roll left. Larsen is covered until KC thinks run, then Timmy pops it over the D for a nice little gain. It looked like they intended to go deep, but it wasn’t open. The defense was fooled twice and if Timmy gets a little better pass off, the Mormon is stormin down the sideline for a big gain.
"You’re only great if you win something. I mean, Alexander wasn’t Alexander the Mediocre or Alexander the Average. He was Alexander the Great, and there’s a reason for it."-Shannon Sharpe
Ya, forgot about him somehow
More passes? You want McCoy to call more passes? I’d tell ‘em not to throw throw the ball unless Giselle Bundchen streaks onto the field and distracts opposing corners.
Dude, I agree with most everything that you write however....
Changing plans before a playoff game is a recipe for disaster. Actually I think we can run the ball against these guys, and some TT voodoo seems to be working in our favor with Mendenhall out….;-)
Can/Will TT have 3 horrific games in a row???? I don’t think so/hope not….
I think Tebow got figured out
I truly do. That in no way means I think he’s over or that he won’t be the starter next year after his first real offseason as a starter (with coaching attention), but I do think he’s been figured out. Meaning, I think the corners for the Steelers will now cover their WR even when Tebow scrambles. And I think the edge guys will stay disciplined and hold their edges not letting Tebow escape. And finally, they’ll also copy the Chiefs in not going to a prevent defense at the end of the game to give Tebow the easy throws he’s used to making during Tebow Time.
I don’t think any of what I’m asking for is at all likely. I’m just saying I don’t think we’re likely to score much on offense if we don’t throw the Steelers for a serious loop. And I don’t see how our passing game can get any worse than it’s been.
More passes? You want McCoy to call more passes? I’d tell ‘em not to throw throw the ball unless Giselle Bundchen streaks onto the field and distracts opposing corners.
Yesterday was a TT epic fail day....and a play calling SNAFU
Griese said he had open receivers but didn’t pull the trigger. He played gun shy. However he did mention that they became to predictable when passing. They need to be in the film room 24/7
He didn't have a feel for the game
which is why he didn’t pull the trigger
I hear that predictable thing a lot, but I don't get it
Those guys were in man coverage pretty much all day. It shouldn’t matter that they expected a pass on 3rd & 8 or whatever. All teams always expect a pass in that situation. Tebow’s passing game isn’t respected and there’s pretty much always an extra guy in the box to account for him and/or the run. As such, even when teams expect a pass, it’s still easier coverage than all other quarterbacks face.
As for the types of throws being predictable, there’s nothing we can really do about it at this point. If Tebow can’t throw a quick slant, he can’t throw a quick slant.
But yeah, it was an epic fail for Timmy yesterday. And the week prior.
More passes? You want McCoy to call more passes? I’d tell ‘em not to throw throw the ball unless Giselle Bundchen streaks onto the field and distracts opposing corners.
You may get crucified for saying that
but yeah, that might be our best chance. Tebow looked shellshocked out there from the buffalo game
"It's all over fat man!"
-Tom Jackson
"When John Elway is standing in lava with a football, he will stay there and sink until you're open"
-Seanbaby
Surprisingly, no ;D
More passes? You want McCoy to call more passes? I’d tell ‘em not to throw throw the ball unless Giselle Bundchen streaks onto the field and distracts opposing corners.
I understand where you're coming from Rodney...
but Quinn isn’t a proven QB in the NFL. I believe he had that look of a deer in the headlights more often than not other than practice.
I dont think you throw everything out because it’s a playoff game. IMO at this point you may add wrinkles but you practice the gameplan ad nauseum and execute.
Better to be quiet and thought of as ignorant than to open your mouth and remove all doubt
by broncofaninIL on Jan 2, 2012 3:09 PM MST up reply actions
It's not really about going to a proven guy
it’s about not doing what history already tells us won’t work. If we know we’re not going to score more than 7 points until Q4 with Tebow in there, might as well try someone else. If Quinn has a problem looking like a deer in headlights, there’s a cure for that. A good defense and a great run game has a way of settling most QBs down. We could just have him handoff 10 times in a row to get him acclimated. It’s not like we haven’t done it already.
More passes? You want McCoy to call more passes? I’d tell ‘em not to throw throw the ball unless Giselle Bundchen streaks onto the field and distracts opposing corners.
Read my mind
Nothing good can come from continuing on the annointed path, especially not against the Steelers D. They’ll do the same thing other lesser defenses have done in recent weeks and probably get a shutout. I say start with Tebow and the usual for a couple of series then bring in Quinn and a real passing attack. The Steelers D will have to make adjustments on the fly and who knows? It’s better than continuing to do the same thing expecting different results. That would be, by definition, insanity.
by BustedBroncos on Jan 2, 2012 4:58 PM MST up reply actions
Ya, and that's my main point there
Not necessarily that Brady Quinn WILL be effective, moreso that he MIGHT be more effective. We have no passing game right now, and we won’t miss what we never had. If anything, Quinn would at least make the defenders move outside of the box and it would open the run-game more. Although if Tebow’s not on the field, they’ll eventually start bringing their rushers quicker and all the sudden we’ll find out how good our OL is at pass protecting.
But yeah, try anything. Even if they just decivde to go to a full fledge spread option instead of bringing in Tebow, I’d be fine with it. The only thing I don’t want is more of the same.
More passes? You want McCoy to call more passes? I’d tell ‘em not to throw throw the ball unless Giselle Bundchen streaks onto the field and distracts opposing corners.
Off topic
Hey Rodney,
I lost my front row sports link. Do you have any suggestions? frankrcarman@yahoo.com
"Peace, a journey without distance to a place we have never left."
by BroncoCUbuffs on Jan 2, 2012 7:44 PM MST up reply actions
I've been saying the same thing
Use Tebow and Quinn like the Cowboys used Don Meredith and Eddie LeBaron fifty years ago. But going from conservative to reactionary is perhaps a bit revolutionary.
At any rate, it’s too late to do this for this next game — and Quinn is probably gone after the season
Not a fan I take it? -)
I know it sounds like a knee-jerk, but I’m not that guy. I simply don’t think we can score, offensively, enough to beat Ben unless we add some big wrinkles to confuse the Steelers defense.
I feel like if we walk into this game with the offensive game plan of ‘business as usual’ then we’re essentially accepting defeat.
More passes? You want McCoy to call more passes? I’d tell ‘em not to throw throw the ball unless Giselle Bundchen streaks onto the field and distracts opposing corners.
by Rodney A on Jan 2, 2012 2:16 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Sad but true, LC
Better to be quiet and thought of as ignorant than to open your mouth and remove all doubt
by broncofaninIL on Jan 2, 2012 3:11 PM MST up reply actions
We are already 0-1 in 2012.
I do not want to accept defeat. Fight damnit. Go balls out and win this thing. We’re at home. We are supposed to win at home.
The best of the 2011-2012 season is yet to come.
and yet we dont
we have the same home record from last year. Our AFC west home games have been lost by 11 points total. pathetic
"It's all over fat man!"
-Tom Jackson
"When John Elway is standing in lava with a football, he will stay there and sink until you're open"
-Seanbaby
Havent had that since 2005 when we went 8-0 at home
We shouldnt be swapping houses with our AFC west counterparts
"It's all over fat man!"
-Tom Jackson
"When John Elway is standing in lava with a football, he will stay there and sink until you're open"
-Seanbaby
Good points..
I have no idea what is happening right now.
I do know, and we should all know, that Tim can throw, he can clinch play..
I do know, from previous film on the kid, that he can run a fast as heck offense, but he needs guys to get open to use his arm.. Once in a while isn’t getting open in my opinion..just that, an opinion.
"I don’t think we’ve peaked yet," - Champ Bailey, practice 12-14-11
Kyle Orton appreciation day, bring a lawn chair and a pillow! 1-1-12
If Fox played Quinn and Tebow...
He’d really show he can make adjustments -open up the playbook…whatever the outcome, would be fun to watch! Annnnd send Tim a message….he needs to focus as its the NFL = Not For Long if u cant pass…If Quinn cant moce the team whats been lost? Tebow finished out and …..
If Fox played Quinn and Tebow...
He’d show what a coach in sheer panic looks like.
When did Brady Quinn become anything other than an average backup QB? the grass is always greener…
Better to be quiet and thought of as ignorant than to open your mouth and remove all doubt
by broncofaninIL on Jan 2, 2012 3:14 PM MST up reply actions
It's never been about Quinn being better than your average backup.
It’s the fact that no one has seen two QBs on the field at the same time. It’s the surprise factor for a handful of plays. Sets with Quinn behind center, one deep back, and Tebow and McGahee or Johnson in the backfield, defenses would be incredibly confused, and if nothing, be forced to take an adjustment time-out.
rodney
I agree with so much of what u say on mhr but this is crazy. If anything its the exact opposite of what we need to do. Imo the troubles throwing comes from a lack of timing and rhythm. When your only asked to throw late it causes rust. Period. Also imo when we do throw early its always trying to get a 20yd completion. Screen pass. Screen pass. Screen pass …PLEASE!
by LC43EU on Jan 2, 2012 3:53 PM MST via mobile reply actions
Nightmare on an endless loop
I keep having this nightmare where number 15 drops back, has plenty of time, looks around, looks around, then bails, does dancing with the stars then either throws it away or gets sacked way back. This can not go on. End my nightmare, draft a real QB.
But when you pan the view out...
It seems to be about 50/50. Sometimes there’s a receiver somewhere on the field who’s open. Lots of times there’s 3 guys in the route, all wearing blankets. Tebow’s trying his best to become this “pocket passer” everybody wants him to become, so he sits and waits. And waits. And nobody ever gets any separation. And then the play goes all to heck in a handbasket. Yeah, he misses some, but LOTS of those plays you’re referring to are simply because there is nobody to throw the ball to.
It’s very frustrating, but it’s a drastic oversimplification to blame it all on the QB. Personally, I wish Tebow would just say the heck with it this week, and if nobody’s open right off tuck it and get what he can get. He can play pocket passer next season, but right now it’s hurting the team.
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