Broncos Free Agents Rated

by yibberat on Jan 20, 2012 3:46 AM MST

Walter Football has released its rankings of free agents this year. Not sure about the rankings of players on other teams but I can't say I really disagree with his ratings of the Broncos. Rankings out of 5 stars after the jump

4 stars - #2 among FA K Matt Prater K, Broncos. Age: 28
Matt Prater is unbelievably clutch, which is exactly what you want out of a kicker. He was also 3-of-4 from 50-plus. Prater deserves a relatively large contract this offseason

3 stars - #9 among FA DT's Brodrick Bunkley, DT, Broncos. Age: 28
Brodrick Bunkley had a great year as a run-stuffer, but he offers nothing in the pass-rushing department.

2 stars - #8 among FA OLB's Wesley Woodyard, OLB, Broncos. Age: 26
Wesley Woodyard could be a starting weakside linebacker somewhere, but didn't get the opportunity to play at that position this past year because of D.J. Williams.

2 stars - #12 among FA ILB Joe Mays, ILB, Broncos. Age: 27
Joe Mays is usable as a two-down thumper in run support, but he is completely clueless in coverage.

2 stars - #15 among FA DT's Marcus Thomas, DT, Broncos. Age: 26
Marcus Thomas is good in run support, but doesn't have a prayer of ever getting to the quarterback.

2 stars - #20 among FA WR's Eddie Royal, WR/PR, Broncos. Age: 26.
Eddie Royal has inexplicably completely regressed as a receiver, but he's a pretty dynamic punt-returner.

1 1/2 stars - #14 among FA OLB's Mario Haggan, OLB, Broncos. Age: 32

1 1/2 stars - #18 among FA QB's Brady Quinn, QB, Broncos. Age: 27

1 1/2 stars - #25 among FA DT's Ryan McBean (RFA), DT, Broncos. Age: 28

1 1/2 stars - #29 among FA DE's Jason Hunter, DE, Broncos. Age: 29

1 star - #12 among FA FB's Spencer Larsen, FB, Broncos. Age: 28

1 star - #16 among FA TE's Daniel Fells, TE, Broncos. Age: 28

1 star - #22 among FA TE's Dante Rosario, TE, Broncos. Age: 27

1 star - #28 among FA G's Russ Hochstein, G, Broncos. Age: 34

1 star - #31 among FA DE's Derrick Harvey, DE, Broncos. Age: 25

1 star - #34 among FA G's Manuel Ramirez, G, Broncos. Age: 29

1 star - #42 among FA WR's Matt Willis (RFA), WR, Broncos. Age: 28

1 star - #46 among FA CB Jonathan Wilhite, CB, Broncos. Age: 28

From what I understand (his opinion not mine), 1 shouldn't be on a roster. 1 1/2 is bench. 2 is rotational/situational starter. 3 is good starter. 4 and 5 are special players.

This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR

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Comments

Mostly i agree

Although i think Fells and Larsen should be graded out slightly better.
Larsen is decent on special teams and Fells is a reasonable situational TE (in my opinion).

by AlleyCat. on Jan 20, 2012 4:35 AM MST reply actions

I'll concur with my compatriot - Larsen and Fells are better than 1 stars - although not by a huge amount

As fans we do have a tendency to overvalue our own players.
Fells is solid enough, but Thomas & Green will hopefully be stepping up for the future. As for Larsen I wish he had never been converted to FB in the first place. Maybe he was too slow to play MLB in the NFL, but he was supposedly good enough to get drafted in the 5th round and he tackles well.

Walt is spot on re: our DT’s – as many of us have been saying for while now we desperately need a DT who can get some pressure on the QB. I have no problem with resigning Thomas as a rotational player, but if he’s our starter next year then that will be a weakness, assuming Warren fails to get back to speed.

What would Blackie Lawless do? Well he'd probably wait till after the playoffs are over before speculating as to what happens in the offseason....

by British Bronco on Jan 20, 2012 5:13 AM MST up reply actions

Spencer Larson?!

Larson did everything that was asked of him and he did it very well. He is a big reason our running game was as good as it was because of his excellent lead blocking and he caught the ball very well. I really dont see how he could have done his job much better. He is not a big money guy but we definitely need to keep him. Giving him a one kills the value of the other evaluations IMO.

I think Fells is being underrated as a blocker. I know everyone in the NFL wants their TE to be great pass catchers, but Fox wants his TE to be blockers first. Thomas cant block anyone and that is why he didnt see the field.

by AttwaterForHOF on Jan 20, 2012 10:57 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs

My point was really that I wished we had given more time for Larsen to develop as an NFL Linebacker

What would Blackie Lawless do? Well he'd probably wait till after the playoffs are over before speculating as to what happens in the offseason....

by British Bronco on Jan 20, 2012 2:19 PM MST up reply actions

+1

Don't measure yourself by what you have accomplished, but by what you should have accomplished with your ability.
John Wooden

Believe you can and you're halfway there.
Theodore Roosevelt

by Digger24 on Jan 20, 2012 2:35 PM MST up reply actions

Thats a good point. He said that he liked being able to focus on one unit though. Playbooks and systems are too complex for two way players, even if they can handle it physically. Maybe he would be a better linebacker, but I thought he did really well at fullback. In any case, he is definitely a high value low cost guy that is solid in the locker room versatile on the field. I hope we sign him.

by AttwaterForHOF on Jan 20, 2012 3:35 PM MST up reply actions

Yes

I think we should really try to keep mays though, not as starter but as back up and special teamer, those highlights of last years game against the chiefs where he just lit up the Tony Moeaki (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mr-ELKhmWj8) is the big physical presence we need on special teams. Larsen as well has had some big hits himself

Royal we should keep, although he has regressed he’s a good slot guy and mix him in with special teams some more and we have a productive player who can make big plays. I would like to see more consistency though.

Fells should be higher, I would like to see him return but we don’t need Rosario as well. Let our youth show what they are made of!

by uk40 on Jan 20, 2012 5:41 AM MST reply actions

Great post yibberat. Rec.

This is what is being talked about right now by EFX. Our own guys. Shit, we really overachieved this year didn’t we?

Don't measure yourself by what you have accomplished, but by what you should have accomplished with your ability.
John Wooden

Believe you can and you're halfway there.
Theodore Roosevelt

by Digger24 on Jan 20, 2012 6:02 AM MST reply actions

Good thing a ranking of our safety play isn't on there.

A rotational DT and a rotational MLB with bad Safeties says it all.

Don't measure yourself by what you have accomplished, but by what you should have accomplished with your ability.
John Wooden

Believe you can and you're halfway there.
Theodore Roosevelt

by Digger24 on Jan 20, 2012 6:06 AM MST up reply actions

Mays was ranked to high.

Personally, I don’t think he’s a rotational starter. His upside is supposed to be against the run but I’ve seen him whiff quite a few tackels. Some weeks his name never even came up. Where was he? Not making tackles, that’s for sure.

GO BRONCOS!!!

by go4broncos on Jan 20, 2012 10:33 AM MST up reply actions

Overachieved is exactly right

I thought 4-12 was the best we could hope for when they announced Orton as the starting QB in training camp.

TurfSharks.com

by ElwayFanJ on Jan 20, 2012 7:27 AM MST up reply actions

Thanks or posting this

I was going through this on Walter last night, and though I was a bit disappointed to see the low rankings for our FA, at the end of the day, I can’t disagree. We can quibble about 1 star or 2 star, but t the end of the day, half our starter and almost all our backups are easily replaced by more talented players. We were a 4 win team 12 months ago for a reason. We had two dozen big holes on our roster then, we still have over a dozen holes on our roster now. Unfortunately, we won’t fill all of them this off season. On the bright side, with the exception of Prater, maybe Bunk, the rest of our FA are expendable.

by canuckbronco on Jan 20, 2012 6:42 AM MST reply actions

It's hard to argue with any of those ratings

Prater and Bunkley are the only two I’d really like to see back next year. It’s amazing how well we did this year with the talent we had.

TurfSharks.com

by ElwayFanJ on Jan 20, 2012 7:24 AM MST reply actions

I'd like to see Thomas back

I think he’s starting to hit his stride and will make improvements next year. This year was a good confidence booster for him and he stepped up when other guys went down with injury. Alot of DT’s take a few years to get used to the size and strength of the NFL and he’s starting to get it. It’s usually about year 4 that many DT’s start to really break out of their shell and he’s only 26.

GO BRONCOS!!!

by go4broncos on Jan 20, 2012 10:37 AM MST up reply actions

Disagree with a few

But then again I rarely agree with Walter Football. Biggest snuffs to me are Larsen, Haggan and Hunter, all of whom are at worst rotational guys and at best below average starters.

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Jan 20, 2012 7:55 AM MST reply actions

He bites off more than he can chew.

Agree with you on all three. Fells is more than a 1 star player as well.

Woodyard is better than Joe Mays.

Tim Tebow is Denver's 2012 starting QB. I'm not even kind of sorry that offends some of you (including you Elway).

by McGeorge on Jan 20, 2012 9:25 AM MST up reply actions

I disagree about Mays, I believe he's a decent starter on any NFL team

Though hardly great. Fells is iffy, mostly because we haven’t seen a lot, but I do agree, he should be a 2 star player, though for any higher grade we would need to see more.

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Jan 20, 2012 10:30 AM MST up reply actions

Mays?! Really?

No way. Mays needs to be jettisoned. I’d rather start Woodyard at MLB or have Nate Irving get thrown into the fire. Maybe he’d do worse, but at least we’d know what we have and move on. Mays was a liability.

GO BRONCOS!!!

by go4broncos on Jan 20, 2012 10:43 AM MST up reply actions 2 recs

Wow, I never thought I'd see that day

After watching the games, and doing research, I see no logical reason Mays should be gone unless we get someone better, and there is zero evidence supporting the idea that a player like that is on that team, especially Wood (who showed last season he couldn’t start) or Irving (who looked lost in his extremely limited time). I like Irving’s potential, but he’s got a very long way to go this off-season before he even is the #2 MLB and Wood is a solid backup, but when forced to play a lot of snaps, LB play drops off.

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Jan 20, 2012 2:38 PM MST up reply actions

Mays is a special team player/spot starter

Mays is tough and physical, but not fast and not instinctive. Those shortcomings allow other teams to game plan against him. When he is isolated in coverage, he routinely gets beat, when he is forced to react to playaction, he is routinely out of position (but then again so where the rest of our LBs many times). I would be quite suprised if he is #1 MLB going into preseason. My bet is on Irving taking several steps forward and claiming that spot.

by brettden on Jan 20, 2012 11:54 AM MST up reply actions

I agree he does have some issues (mostly in coverage)

But actually think he’s a pretty quick linebacker, and is only beat against quick receivers, which all linebackers get beat by. I would like to see Irving step up, but man, he’s looked horrible in TC and practice. I would like an upgrade, but considering he’s solid I see no evidence he’s really sub-par.

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Jan 20, 2012 2:41 PM MST up reply actions

Until we get another Al Wilson type stud there

It is hard to remember what great MLB play looks like when it has been so long since we have seen it. Maybe Irving, maybe a FA, maybe a guy like Kuechly slides a bit (happened with Laurinaitis few years back, so it is possible). If we got a guy like Kuechly in the draft, a guy like Avril or C. Campbell in FA, and drafted a corner like Johnson from Montana (6’3" 200#) then we are on to something.

by brettden on Jan 20, 2012 11:14 PM MST up reply actions

Its time for Wesley Woodyard to get paid

Great on special teams, pretty good coverage linebacker, great tackler, and a great part of the community

A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves

by waterboy31321 on Jan 20, 2012 8:48 AM MST reply actions

it would be great if Woodyard could take over as the MLB

He seems smart enough and is a hell of a guy. I don’t know if that translates to leader though. I just think that
Miller, Woodyard, Williams
just looks better on paper than
Miller Mays Williams
Although I personally am very hopeful for Irving to step up in his second year

Playoffs!?!? Playoffs!?!? Don't talk about Playoffs!! Playoffs?!?!

by Mike Agnew on Jan 20, 2012 12:41 PM MST up reply actions

My thought is one or the other

For some reason I get the feeling we will go with DJ or Woodyard, but not both . . .

by brettden on Jan 20, 2012 2:17 PM MST up reply actions

Woodyard is pretty quick

I wonder if he would be better used as a safety.

by bill2975 on Jan 20, 2012 6:22 PM MST up reply actions

Great Post. Thanks.

Maybe this is why the Bronco OC and DC are being looked at for HC jobs. I think if is safe to say that the team over achieved based on its talent level. Credit to the Vets in the locker room as well.

by cyngato on Jan 20, 2012 9:03 AM MST reply actions

running game without larsen

seemed to drop off. don’t care to study up on the causal relationship if there was one, but my feeling is that larsen was missed and is closer to a 2.5 star than a 1. woody gets a 3 star in my book as well. he might not be a marquee type, but his value as a utility/high energy guy puts him up there. sure would like to see something out of derrick harvey.

by oxmouth on Jan 20, 2012 10:09 AM MST reply actions

@jibberat..so you have us with one top player and one rotational and

the rest are not keepable, right? Hum interesting
IMO we ‘pay’ Prater, Bunkley, Thomas, Woodyard, and Fells. I think that Spencer Larsen is optional, along with Jason Hunter.
Mays, Royal, McBean are situational only.

Kreese and Lawrence will decide if Tim Tebow can develop into our future.
Bronco fan since 1966. Current biggest Bronco fan in Vegas, living the good life.

by DLMyers on Jan 20, 2012 11:09 AM MST reply actions

I'm not saying anything

I’m just posting what someone else has said.

I do think we as fans tend to get far too rahrah about our own players. Players are replaceable.

Personally, I’d like to sign Prater, Bunkley, Woodyard, Thomas, Larsen and one of Fells/Rosario. The others are IMO more valuable as an actual roster slot that younger players or FA’s can fill.

Every one of these guys that we sign means one less available slot for some new player to compete for.

by yibberat on Jan 20, 2012 11:20 AM MST up reply actions

Add McBean (RFA) and Harvey (more upside than ranking credits him with) to that list

by yibberat on Jan 20, 2012 11:34 AM MST up reply actions

I think Harvey is likely done

Maybe he takes a step up, but I see his spot going to a younger player next year.

by brettden on Jan 20, 2012 11:51 AM MST up reply actions

Harvey has only been in the league 3 years? WOW.

by brettden on Jan 20, 2012 11:58 AM MST up reply actions

Harvey is probably one of the few on this list

who can be signed to a one year incentive contract. Maybe Willis but I agree that he is a 1 star player with little/no upside

by yibberat on Jan 20, 2012 12:01 PM MST up reply actions

Totally agree on McBean but no to Harvey. Inactive most of 2011.

Kreese and Lawrence will decide if Tim Tebow can develop into our future.
Bronco fan since 1966. Current biggest Bronco fan in Vegas, living the good life.

by DLMyers on Jan 20, 2012 3:40 PM MST up reply actions

Harvey is the only guy on FA who we claimed

by virtue of a #2 waiver claim. I suspect there is zero chance we will piss that away.

by yibberat on Jan 20, 2012 4:30 PM MST up reply actions

this year, we have a #25 waiver claim

so we will get nobody

by yibberat on Jan 20, 2012 4:30 PM MST up reply actions

And here's to never having a #2 waiver claim ever again. clink.

Don't measure yourself by what you have accomplished, but by what you should have accomplished with your ability.
John Wooden

Believe you can and you're halfway there.
Theodore Roosevelt

by Digger24 on Jan 20, 2012 5:18 PM MST up reply actions

Woodyard gone in my opinion

Unless we get rid of DJ, I don’t see us paying what someone else would for Woodyard. He has show starter caliber play, and I doubt we keep him and DJ. Touch call on who I would choose . . .

by brettden on Jan 20, 2012 11:50 AM MST up reply actions

There has to be a balance of age on the team and letting all these players go would be disastrous.

Bunkley, Thomas and McBean cheap. Daniels Fells, Matt Pratter a must. Eddie Royal won’t get much imo and is great in the return game. Derrick Harvey the former #8 pick in ’08 is a mystery as he barely contributed to anything. He is still young though and might be worth keeping at least through TC.

I hope EFX brings in a Safety, pass rush DT and DE along with OT/G and RBs from FA.

Win, lose or draw, we are the Denver Broncos! 13-3 Baby!!! Until we ain't!

Follow @bfree2bronc

by bfree2bronc on Jan 20, 2012 11:12 AM MST reply actions

Agreed

I think we will keep the majority of these vets. I think Royal will want to go somewhere else to go after more time as a WR. DT, Decker and Willis will probably get most WR reps for us, and I doubt we will be doing much 4 WR stuff. Royal is good on ST, but I suspect he will want more than that.

by brettden on Jan 20, 2012 12:01 PM MST up reply actions

Eddie has said on facebook that he wants to remain a Bronco. Whether that's just player speak or something different we'll find out.

Win, lose or draw, we are the Denver Broncos! 13-3 Baby!!! Until we ain't!

Follow @bfree2bronc

by bfree2bronc on Jan 20, 2012 1:48 PM MST up reply actions

I'm good with Eddie staying

because he is another guy that is a legit NFL player, and if we bring in two or three other NFL roster worthy receivers then we have 6 or 7 guys fighting for 5 spots, team wins b/c we end up with more talent at the end of the day, or at least that is how the theory works in my head.

by brettden on Jan 20, 2012 2:19 PM MST up reply actions

b2b..one more big area of concern.

Backup center. Hochstein is the one I believe, and he may be gone.

Kreese and Lawrence will decide if Tim Tebow can develop into our future.
Bronco fan since 1966. Current biggest Bronco fan in Vegas, living the good life.

by DLMyers on Jan 20, 2012 3:42 PM MST up reply actions

Hochstein isn't starter material imo, but he is very versatile along the line. I hope he stays on for another year.

Win, lose or draw, we are the Denver Broncos! 13-3 Baby!!! Until we ain't!

Follow @bfree2bronc

by bfree2bronc on Jan 21, 2012 12:49 AM MST up reply actions

Not sure who Walter is.

So I don’t want to be too critical, but I don’t think I can agree with Walter, especially on the bottom group. Nearly each player listed there, sans Wilhite, Ramirez and Harvey, are situational starters/bench players. I think the bottom of our roster bodes well for us in the sense that most of those guys are legit NFL players. Where in years past we have had 10-12 guys that no other team wanted.

That being said, we still need roster upgrades. I would be feeling very good if we added enough talent to challenge players like Haggan, Mays, McBean, Thomas, Hunter, Larson and Willis for roster spots, but based on what they gave us this year I doubt we will be able to upgrade that much.

We got rid of some crap DBs last season, lets hope we can continue that trend (Wilhite/Bush) and maybe upgrade OL & DL while we are at it. More depth at WR would be nice too.

by brettden on Jan 20, 2012 11:48 AM MST reply actions

That's where I disagree

The guys rated 1 and 1 1/2 stars are all older. They don’t have “upside” anymore. A couple of them only have downside. And unless we drop players, we CAN’T bring in people to really “challenge” the players you name for roster spots. There’s 53 roster slots – and signing FA’s means signing multi-year contracts for most of them.

The only one of those 1 or 1 1/2 star players who is younger than league average is Derrick Harvey. The others are either taking up space or are misrated. “Bench” players should honestly be mostly younger players who have some potential future upside. Not folks who are simply depth fill-ins

by yibberat on Jan 20, 2012 11:58 AM MST up reply actions

Fair enough

But I will take Mays and Haggan on my team for ST and backup duty before I will take chances on someone elses castoffs or late round or college free agent guys. If they can bring on ST I want them. Same with Fells, Larson, Hunter and McBean. Change for change sake is what bad teams do.

We will have a few spots open for the type of player you suggest, but I believe we will bring back several of these team vets too. X calls these guys “free” so that tells me he wants several of them.

by brettden on Jan 20, 2012 12:05 PM MST up reply actions

Develop young players through the draft/bench is what good teams do

And the only way a team can create those bench slots is to get rid of FA types who are bench. Doesn’t mean all of them. Every team will have some holes and will need some “veteran” presence or some specialty. But basically most of our bench is guys who will never get better than bench. That is a massive massive roster waste.

ST skills (except K, P, LS who should be stable) is very overrated. Every year’s draft class is packed to the gills with players who can make an immediate impact on ST.

by yibberat on Jan 20, 2012 12:15 PM MST up reply actions

I don't know, but truth probably somewhere in the middle

I don’’t know what kind of roster turnover teams like Pats, Saints, Packers have each year on the bottom of the roster, but certainly there needs to be some. But ST isn’t for everyone. Look around the league and you see a lot of vets spend time on those units, and some guys make a career out of it (see our own Keith Burns).

25 starters (offense, defense and 3 specialists), plus 8-10 backups on each side of the ball are what I would guess playoff caliber teams retain each year, so that leaves 8-10 spots each year to add (notwithstanding free agent additions). I think MCD’s 1st year we had like 25-30 new faces, which I think is too many to change in one year unless it is major rebuild. So I agree in the end, yes we do need to add youth to develp each year and I think that looks like 8-10 draft, undrafter free agent and PS squad guys moving in.

by brettden on Jan 20, 2012 2:36 PM MST up reply actions

There's a big difference between teams that are already deep

and teams like us who aren’t.

Deep teams have already purged their bench of no upside guys and so their bench is set to feed into starter slots which means they can let some FA starters walk because they have people who can take over. A lot of these teams regularly do that for everyone over 30 or so (which I don’t necessarily agree with).

Teams like us that aren’t deep need to take chances with our bench. We HAVE to sign all our starter FA’s because we aren’t deep and no one on the bench can step into those roles. Open up most bench slots to new blood with upside. A lot of it won’t work without good coaching and development. But it doesn’t take many successes to create a completely new dynamic.

And yes I agree that 25-30 new faces is too much. Of these 18 FA’s above, I think we need to keep 7 or 8 or so. That creates 10 or so slots – for 7 draft picks plus a couple of FA’s plus a couple of IR guys plus a few UDFA’s.

That seems to me to be a good number for turnover (the 10 above plus whichever contract guys get beat out) for a team that is rebuilding. Any less than that and we are sending a message that we are merely tweaking things now. Which makes our draft pretty useless in the bottom rounds. Opening things up makes draft trade downs possible. There’s a lot of upside/development players in those lower rounds who are perfect for a bench slot.

by yibberat on Jan 20, 2012 3:13 PM MST up reply actions

I thing we mostly agree

I say 8-10 new roster faces (3 FA 5-7 draft/UDFA), likely keep 10 of the names on the list. I think several of those guys (like Haggan, Hochstein, Harvey, Mays) will be back for camp at least, where they will have to battle those new guys for spots.

We certainly aren’t as deep as Pit (imagine if we would have lost Bunk and Thomas in first quarter of that game!) or NE, but most teams aren’t. However Us of today is a lot deeper than Us of 5 years ago, so I like where we are. I hope we do well again with the draft, and see the rookies from 2011 move up the roster a bit (like Carter, Thomas and Irving).

by brettden on Jan 20, 2012 11:24 PM MST up reply actions

Hmmm

Mays is 1 start no question…he doesn’t belong on any roster as a MLB. He’s just bad at reading plays and he’s horrid at coverage.

Willis is a 2 star guy…he’s a backup WR and he plays great special teams. He’s also a burner if we’d ever use him as such.

I’m surprised that they nailed Royal…he’s a backup WR who can return punts. He should not have a lock on the #2 or #3 WR spot on any team based off his play this year on offense.

"Bombs dropping down overhead. Underground. It's instilled to want to live." -EV

by sadaraine on Jan 20, 2012 11:53 AM MST reply actions 1 recs