Brandon Spano's Wesley Woodyard Rant
This is a must-read article.
4 months ago
Sayre Bedinger
98 comments
5 recs |
Comments
He is Brian Dawkin's clone ... seriously.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUNAdnhEIBc
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Can you find the 'W' in this mess? Tebow can.
Great article
I knew I always liked Woodyard.
by jbbroncosfan27 on Jan 26, 2012 2:05 PM MST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
@Sayre..nice find. And I totally agree.
DJ has more bulk but Wesley can cover. Both can get the same amount of tackles.
Totally agree on moving DJ for needed picks and let Wesley man the WILL. Plus there are others that could project behind Woodyard, like Irving (speed with cover skills).
Kreese and Lawrence will decide if Tim Tebow can develop into our future.
Bronco fan since 1966. Current biggest Bronco fan in Vegas, living the good life.
Thats pretty much what we did....
I could care less about titles and nomenclature. I care about who is on the field. And we played a BUNCH of nickle this year and that meant WW/DJ at LB and von at DE. So its not like he wasnt playing.
Woody just wants to play every down so he can make a name for himself and get the $$$ that goes with it. I can’t knock his hustle either. Hopefully they can find a way to keep him around.
by Triz06 on Jan 26, 2012 3:04 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I dunno
DJ is best as a WLB in pursuit. I don’t think he’s a great fit at Mike.
by Broncologist on Jan 26, 2012 4:28 PM MST up reply actions
IDK how we move DJ....
Considering what we’ve gotten, or not gotten, for our players recently… I doubt we get anything substantial in return. We got nothing for Orton… relatively nothing for B Lloyd and Gaffney. Would we really take a 4th for DJ? At best WW for DJ is a wash.. then what are the chances we replace WW with a 4th? And that is best case scenerio.
I think they should try to keep both.
by Triz06 on Jan 26, 2012 3:01 PM MST reply actions 2 recs
We don't need to replace WW with a draft pick
We have Nate Irving and Mike Mohamed to backup the position. And even if the Broncos did want to spend a draft pick on a backup LB, I think a 4th would be a little high.
by Broncologist on Jan 26, 2012 4:31 PM MST up reply actions
Gotta do whatever it takes to keep Woodyard!
Von Miller and Dumervil are basically racing to see who's first to the QB...Love this feeling!!!
THIS
the guy is outstanding!
Brad James
Follow me on Twitter
With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!
by the new Bradfather on Jan 26, 2012 4:42 PM MST up reply actions
Could not agree more
There’s simply no dropoff when Woodyard starts in place of Williams. Now is the time to trade DJ, his value will never be this high again.
Philly, Detroit, Chicago might all be good fits for a trade. I think you could expect back a 2nd.
why not? I have a hard time predicting NFL trade. Lloyd for a 6th seems way low, Roy Willaims gets a 1st plus? Javon Walker brought in a 2nd, so did Cassell, Shockey, all guys I consider somewhat comparable to DJ.
I think all it shows is that prices are driven by demand, and that’s a volatile thing in such a small market like the NFL. I’d be asking for a 2nd might be a better way to put it. I’d give it even odds of getting that or a 3rd as the top offer, but I’m not sure I’d take the 3rd.
Clearly Brian Xanders has no clue how to value someone.
If in fact he is the one doing the negotiating.
GB 2
Either cut DJ or trade him
I wanted them to do it last season. Woodyard is a helluva player, and i’d go as far as to say that he plays even better then DJ. Sure DJ is more athletic and gets a big hit here and there, but he’s a huge liability in coverage, misses tackles and is very inconsistent.
and is kinda of a ... not Brian Dawkins type guy.
hcamhfcolanholanwsanvlaplayoffsljahnanlanvamwehpncwnwlnsuperbowlljcanlncnfjlhwvjdlvknhsglsjvscandiceswanepoelolkjmvpjaofchajhvajchajhflawhgak
Can you find the 'W' in this mess? Tebow can.
Great article
This whole story kind of plays into that nagging feeling that a lot of us have had about DJ and WW. Let’s face it: We all hoped that DJ would develop into one of our great linebackers. Gradishar, Mecklenburg, and Al Wilson, to name a few. DJ has been good, but he has not been, and will not become, another great Broncos linebacker. He has barely met expectations his whole career and always underperformed off the field and as a leader.
WW, on the other hand, has greatly exceeded expectations as a leader and on special teams. And, during his opportunities as a starter, he has often come through for us….just ask the Chicago Bears. I think he has earned the chance to start, and I’d go along with the idea of trading DJ for a starter or a 2nd or 3rd. We really could use the picks, and DJ likely has seen his better days.
by OrangeTexan on Jan 26, 2012 3:35 PM MST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
You speak the truth
Woodyard just shows really well
Brad James
Follow me on Twitter
With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!
by the new Bradfather on Jan 26, 2012 4:44 PM MST up reply actions
The article sounds completely biased. He met Wood and really liked him and that surely comes across. It doesn't say anywhere that he sat down and talked with DJ but it does say a lot of what DJ seems to be.
I disagree that Woodyard is as good as DJ. I see a drop off when DJ is out especially in coverage. I just don’t think Wood is as athletic. He covers ok but not great. He also isn’t as good in the run game. He is solid as a backup and great on ST. I love Wood. I think he is a high class guy and hope he stays on the Broncos. I just think it is ridiculous that people want to trade a better LB and replace him with a fan favorite. This article didn’t change my mind at all.
Think about this. DJ has had 3 coaches here and not once has one of them thought he was a better option than DJ. That should tell all of you something as well. Rather than justify your opinion by saying the coaches aren’t giving him a chance maybe some should put down their koolaid on the guy and get some perspective. Just my own rant.
Tim Tebow wears 3WM and drinks Tuscan whole milk.
by BroncoMath101 on Jan 26, 2012 3:53 PM MST reply actions 5 recs
THIS!
I can not understand the hate for DJ on this site sometimes. I love WW. He is a very good weakside backer. But DJ is better. As BroncoMath points out, every coach for the last 5 years has thought so.
I also agree with Triz’s comments about how we actually lined up on the field, when Mays went out and WW came in. DJ was basically playing the middle and WW was playing the weakside.
I’d like to see DJ move back to the middle with WW playing the weakside full time. The only time DJ struggled at MLB was when out DT’s sucked. With the big space eaters we have now doing the job like they should, DJ will be much better.
Oh, you were finished? Oh, well, allow me to retort!
--Jules Winnfield
+1
DJ is definitely better suited to the outside, but I’ll take an out of position DJ if it means Woodyard in and Mays out.
by Dan Hart on Jan 26, 2012 5:20 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Lesser of two evils here.
DJ is better suited outside, but I agree with you. I’d rather have Von / DJ / Wood, if possible.
Whatcha gonna do, brother, when the Broncos run wild on you!
except we don't have space eaters still. Our DTs fell apart down the stretch and we really gave up a lot in the run game.
Tim Tebow wears 3WM and drinks Tuscan whole milk.
by BroncoMath101 on Jan 26, 2012 7:48 PM MST up reply actions
Only when they went light up front
When teams spread us out in the nickel we got gashed. That was with Ayers at DT and Von at DE. That was more a depth issue than anything.
"You’re only great if you win something. I mean, Alexander wasn’t Alexander the Mediocre or Alexander the Average. He was Alexander the Great, and there’s a reason for it."-Shannon Sharpe
by CH74 on Jan 26, 2012 9:29 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
They are not even close to being the same LB
if they were, Wood would have the job by now. How could anyone argue? Surely Fox would start Wood over DJ if he were the better player.
Whatcha gonna do, brother, when the Broncos run wild on you!
Actually,
I would argue that WW’s three coaches have steadily become more impressed with him. Case in point, Fox gave WW more playing time this year than ever before. IMO, he performed pretty well.
I’m not hating on DJ. He is a good player. Nevertheless, pro football is a BUSINESS, and the fact of the matter is that 1) DJ is not worth the value of his contract 2) WW is pretty darn good for what is FA contract will cost 3) the net savings can be used to fill other holes and 4) DJ can be traded for picks and/or a starter at another position. To be sure, I don’t advocate cutting DJ, and I’m not a DJ basher. I just think the idea of trading DJ makes good business sense.
by OrangeTexan on Jan 26, 2012 5:32 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
so we are ok with lesser talent because the contract is ok? I'm sorry I dont' agree.
WW is less talented than DJ. This is a fact. I like WW a lot and I hope we keep him. He is a leader and a ST ace but he is not a starting caliber LB IMO.
It is easy to be impressed with him. He works his tail off. Never complains. Does whatever is asked of him and plays special teams willingly. He’s a fantastic teammate. He got more playing time because we were constantly having to defend the pass and our secondary got brutalized by injuries. I think right now he makes a fantastic backup for DJ and I hope he stays that way. I don’t think sacrificing our better talent for a guy we love but is less talented is the way to build a dominant defense.
Tim Tebow wears 3WM and drinks Tuscan whole milk.
by BroncoMath101 on Jan 26, 2012 7:51 PM MST up reply actions
I guess that's where we'll have to disagree....
IMO, Wesley Woodyard, salary cap room to acquire a quality free agent, and an extra draft pick (I would guess a 2nd or 3rd) is greater than the talent difference between WW and DJ.
Is DJ talented? Sure. He always has been. Nevertheless, he has underperformed his contract. Talent doesn’t always translate to results. This is a business. If we’re paying DJ top 5 or 10 money at his position, and we have a right to expect top 5 or 10 performance.
At this point in DJ’s career, I think we can reasonably assume we have seen his best. He’s a decent starter who has occasional off-field issues and limited leadership ability. If someone wants to take his big contract off our hands, I think we should add some valuable pieces with the cap savings and draft pick.
Regarding WW, we’re still learning what he is capable of. He has zero off-field concerns, he is a leader, he is a ST ace, and he continues to get better and better as a starter….probably because he works hard. I’ll hitch my cart to a horse like that any day.
by OrangeTexan on Jan 26, 2012 9:16 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
DJ had 90 tackles, 70 solo, 5 sacks, 3 FF,
Those are pretty darn good stats out of a WLB. Not his best year tackles wise but he only played 13 games.
Tim Tebow wears 3WM and drinks Tuscan whole milk.
by BroncoMath101 on Jan 27, 2012 4:40 PM MST up reply actions
I think DJ is a hot and cold player. WW is a lot more consistent. I would take consistency over flash guys any day,
Foxy...you WERE on the hot seat, but you fooled me you rascally old deveil...keep building that team mate!
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Champ Bailey.
by boydy2669 on Jan 27, 2012 6:26 AM MST up reply actions 2 recs
So much hate for DJ.
I’ll never understand it. Maybe “hate” is too strong a word, but all the guy has done has been our best linebacker over the course of the last few years. He’s even made it to some probowls, so surely he can’t be as bad as many “informed” people seem to think. That may not be the case any longer with Von on the team, but it just makes me laugh every time I read an article or post that is basically saying DJ is just some throw away scrub that hasn’t accounted for anything during his career. Just my .02.
Whatcha gonna do, brother, when the Broncos run wild on you!
by postpunk27 on Jan 26, 2012 4:13 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
He isn’t worth his contract – not even close – that’s the complaint. He is wildly inconsistent. He has flashes of greatness, but for the most part he’s just a LB who ranges from below-average to decent, but he’s paid like a pro bowler.
And making it to the pro bowl does not mean you’re good. People who vote him into the pro bowl are the kind of people who just look at stats and see he got a bunch of tackles, nevermind that they came 9 yards downfield.
by scooter17 on Jan 26, 2012 4:42 PM MST up reply actions 2 recs
THIS
the Pro Bowl is never worth my time, I won’t watch it this year either, I’m looking forward to next week at Indianapolis.
Brad James
Follow me on Twitter
With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!
by the new Bradfather on Jan 26, 2012 4:46 PM MST up reply actions
That was hardly the point, though you know that ;)
Whatcha gonna do, brother, when the Broncos run wild on you!
Here we go with the 9 yards down field routine again.
And since when does making a pro bowl mean you are NOT good? Jesus man, the NFL has been doing it wrong for a really, really long time. I’ll concur with what the man said above me. There have been three head coaches here since DJ has been here, and not one of them has seen fit to sit him in favor of Wood, when healthy, or any other time. So for once, I’m going to use the old “the coaches know more than we do” bit.
Whatcha gonna do, brother, when the Broncos run wild on you!
ranges from below average to decent? Are you kidding me? Joe Mays is below average. WW is decent to below average.
DJ is above average I can assure you. Maybe he is a little over paid but he is not a below average LB.
Tim Tebow wears 3WM and drinks Tuscan whole milk.
by BroncoMath101 on Jan 26, 2012 7:52 PM MST up reply actions
They came 9 yards downfield because our D line sucked
"It's all over fat man!"
-Tom Jackson
"When John Elway is standing in lava with a football, he will stay there and sink until you're open"
-Seanbaby
Shhh
Get out of here with that common sense.
Whatcha gonna do, brother, when the Broncos run wild on you!
Oh, sorry grind. Back to my cave
"It's all over fat man!"
-Tom Jackson
"When John Elway is standing in lava with a football, he will stay there and sink until you're open"
-Seanbaby
Haha
it’s just the same old argument. DJ sucks! Let’s trade him! rawr! As if we have anyone that can replace him. I’m sorry, I don’t buy that Wood = DJ.
Whatcha gonna do, brother, when the Broncos run wild on you!
I hope Wood can start somewhere he deserves it
but I dont think he equal to DJ. I would love to trade him for a player straight up, like Carolina’s backup MLB
"It's all over fat man!"
-Tom Jackson
"When John Elway is standing in lava with a football, he will stay there and sink until you're open"
-Seanbaby
DJ doesn’t suck at all. He just sucks in comparison with his contract. He brings Wesley Woodyard production with a Brian Urlacher contract.
I'll say it again.
If Wood was truly better, he would be starting by now. And it’s not because of DJ’s contract, either. There are plenty of players that I’m sure are playing ahead of other players making more than them. If a team truly cares about winning it will always place its best players on the field, regardless of any other situation. DJ is miles better than Wood, and that is why Wood has been relegated to special teams and filling in when DJ gets hurt. It is what it is. And apparently Coach Fox, Coach McDaniels, and Coach Shanahan all agree with me.
Whatcha gonna do, brother, when the Broncos run wild on you!
DJ is better.
No doubt in my mind.
If Woody can find a better gig so be it.
Don't measure yourself by what you have accomplished, but by what you should have accomplished with your ability.
John Wooden
Believe you can and you're halfway there.
Theodore Roosevelt
I don't get why we can't slide DJ back to the middle.
That was his one pro bowl alternate season, when he was at MLB. Why not keep Wood also, and just insert him at WLB? Problem solved, everyone wins. I’m pretty sure we can afford to do this, but I’ve been wrong before.
Whatcha gonna do, brother, when the Broncos run wild on you!
He's inconsistent
And he routinely makes mistakes that should not be made by a linebacker above the junior high level. Not so much this year, but every year before, just watching the pursuit angles he takes on ballcarriers is incredibly frustrating. He’s always trying to “catch up” to the runner instead of taking a good angle and using proper technique to make the tackle. Sure, he makes a lot of tackles, but too many seem to come 12 yards downfield. Of course, everyone gets caught out of position at times, but for DJ it seemed to happen a lot throughout his career.
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
And why is he making tackles so far down field to begin with?
Where are my crazy pills.
Whatcha gonna do, brother, when the Broncos run wild on you!
I agree in part
That a lot of the “down field” has to do with the front 4 lacking. But some of the extra yardage comes from DJ taking piss poor pursuit angles. Rabbit drills in pop warner should have taken care of that still-present bad habit. Similarly, a portion of Champ’s downfield tackles can be attributed to DJ trying to lay the knockout hit, not wrapping up, and the ballcarrier continuing further down the field.
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
D.J. Williams never played in the Pro Bowl
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Woodyard is a class act I must say!
Brad James
Follow me on Twitter
With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!
by the new Bradfather on Jan 26, 2012 4:34 PM MST reply actions
So many good comments in here.
I mentioned this in horsetrack comments this morning. Knowing the salary of the guy beside you has got to be tough to do. Especially if you feel you are better than them. I’m real surprised an article like this exists in a main stream forum. There’s a lot of bad stuff about DJ in there.
IMO, DJ needs to take a paycut and we use it to re-sign Woodyard. Yeah won’t happen I know. If he does move on, I wish him well.
Don't measure yourself by what you have accomplished, but by what you should have accomplished with your ability.
John Wooden
Believe you can and you're halfway there.
Theodore Roosevelt
There's a lot of bad - subjective - stuff about DJ in there.
So he isn’t the best role model, I don’t think that is what he’s paid to be. And he certainly isn’t the first pro athlete to be called those things, whether they be true or not. The issue – to me – is that people want to crucify him for his off the field activities, but what exactly has he done that has been so extremely terrible? DUIs? Please. If we are going to convict the guy in the court of public opinion we should at least have our stories straight.
Are we cutting / trading him because he is a poor player on the field, or because he is somewhat considered to be a “problem” player off of it? And someone above said he doesn’t deserve his contract, essentially. Well, neither does Doom, Champ or any other of our pricier players based on the way last season ended. It just seems to me that for whatever reason, DJ has become the scapegoat for the defense. If anything, he should be praised. He’s switched positions year in and year out, had a different DC every year and still he makes pro bowls. But I forgot, those don’t matter.
Whatcha gonna do, brother, when the Broncos run wild on you!
I don't think DJ has made a Pro Bowl trip in his whole career.
and he is a DUI away from getting a suspension from the Leauge.
and Woodyard has proven he is a good player in his time here. He has gone through 3 HCs as well. But instead of getting in trouble off the field, he has been representing our team well.
I liked DJ a lot, but I think it’s time to move him.
Zach Brown could fall to us in the draft, and he could be the answer to the Gronks of this world.
hcamhfcolanholanwsanvlaplayoffsljahnanlanvamwehpncwnwlnsuperbowlljcanlncnfjlhwvjdlvknhsglsjvscandiceswanepoelolkjmvpjaofchajhvajchajhflawhgak
Can you find the 'W' in this mess? Tebow can.
Fair enough,
he was actually a pro bowl alternate. Even still, he averages over a hundred tackles a year, along with a few sacks, FF’s, and the occasional interception. Not to mention the monstrous hits he is capable of. I think Roy Williams knows what I’m talking about. I get what you are saying totally, it’s just that I guess I disagree. Our defense is improving, and in my opinion getting rid of DJ will do nothing but hinder that progress. It’s just another guy to bring in that has to learn the system and get up to speed etc, and again, to me, it simply seems unnecessary when we have DJ Williams, who is also capable of playing any of the LB spots with some modicum of success.
He’s just not a guy I want to see leave the team. Not now, not after we finally look respectable again. DJ has been here throughout most of it and I’d like to see what he can do with another Von Miller type or a beastly DT (haha yeah right, like we’ll ever draft one of those!) I’m not taking anything away from Wood, well maybe a little, but he is no DJ Williams.
Whatcha gonna do, brother, when the Broncos run wild on you!
DJ>Wes
as far as just football talent and the big money contract.
You are correct in saying that Champ and Doom probably don’t deserve their high price either, but if you look at the Pitt game and how they were on the verge of moving in and kicking the winning field, look at who made the plays to send it to OT. I’m not saying DJ doesn’t make great plays, he does, I’m just saying to look at that certain instance at the extra effort Doom gave stripping Rothlensberger and then the next play Champ out of nowhere to knock the ball away.
Don't measure yourself by what you have accomplished, but by what you should have accomplished with your ability.
John Wooden
Believe you can and you're halfway there.
Theodore Roosevelt
Tebow's an alterante too, but he's not going. It means little to me.
hcamhfcolanholanwsanvlaplayoffsljahnanlanvamwehpncwnwlnsuperbowlljcanlncnfjlhwvjdlvknhsglsjvscandiceswanepoelolkjmvpjaofchajhvajchajhflawhgak
Can you find the 'W' in this mess? Tebow can.
Gotta give credit where it's due.
There are plenty of other players that aren’t alternates. It still says something that you were at least on the short list, IMHO.
Whatcha gonna do, brother, when the Broncos run wild on you!
Wesley vs DJ
DJ:
15 games
75 tackles
27 assists
1.08 tackle reliability (1.00 is average).
5 sacks
4 passes defended
6 quarterback hits
2 forced fumbles (including a huge game winner)
8 tackles for losses
Wesley:
16 games
60 tackles
27 assists
0.86 tackle reliability
0 sacks
2 passes defended
0 quarterback hits
1 forced fumble (a game winner)
1 tackle for loss.
Not sure how much this comparison says, as I don’t know how many plays each played. However, the tackle factor is a rate stat, and it indicates that DJ is clearly a better tackler than WW.
Also of note, DJ is the only player on our entire roster that has a tackle factor score of above 1.00. According to advancednflstats. We’re apparently a poor tackling team all the way around.
by tunesmith on Jan 27, 2012 2:04 AM MST reply actions 3 recs
people always want stats to back an arguement
I think these are best stats evidence put down in this whole stream. Any evidence to go against advancenflstats?
Also I will put in the two cents of recalling McD ( a dirty name around here I know, but many also are now pretty happy with his drafting which is talent evaluation) raving about DJ as one of the best LBers he coached and many people not realizing how many things he does for the team. How many comments then were posted on this very website that they didn’t remember McD ever saying those types of comments about his players
Bronco Learning Curve
Wood only goes in on nickel packages(expected pass)
DJ is in the game all day long. These stats are misleading. Especially when it’s a run play and Woodyard is on the sideline.
Von Miller and Dumervil are basically racing to see who's first to the QB...Love this feeling!!!
We played a ton of nickel this year. It wasn't just a third down thing.
Tim Tebow wears 3WM and drinks Tuscan whole milk.
by BroncoMath101 on Jan 27, 2012 4:43 PM MST up reply actions
I believe DJ actually missed 3 games this year too.
Tim Tebow wears 3WM and drinks Tuscan whole milk.
by BroncoMath101 on Jan 27, 2012 4:43 PM MST up reply actions
More stats
I did offer that caveat above, aside from the tackling stat.
But, I just found some more stats. Here’s what PFF thinks about the two of them. They’re the guys that score every player for every play.
Wesley had 664 snaps, DJ had 1069 (second most on the team, behind Andre Goodman). Wesley tended to be focused more on pass snaps, like you say.
However, both had overall negative ratings. DJ had negative ratings across the board. Wesley had a positive rating for run defense, but was rated worse than DJ in pass rushing (Wesley didn’t have many pass rushing snaps anyway), and significantly lower than DJ in pass coverage.
In terms of all our defenders, our top five in terms of rating were Von Miller, Brodrick Bunkley, Champ, Elvis, and Mario Haggan. Our bottom five were Wesley Woodyard, Rahim Moore, D.J. Williams, Quinton Carter, and Ryan McBean in last place.
Wait wait wait
did you say that Wood was SIGNIFICANTLY lower than DJ in pass coverage? Well, there goes that argument. I hope a good portion of the regulars read this post from you. Heck, you should make a fan post. I’m sure it would be one hell of a thread.
Whatcha gonna do, brother, when the Broncos run wild on you!
Yeah, that’s about the size of it.
Not sure what PFF’s policy is on sharing their data, I’d be tempted to just share the complete rankings of the Broncs with all their ratings. :)
Major caveat though – I don’t really know what +5.6 means to them. I get that positive is better than negative. Von has scores like +25.6, huge numbers apparently.
I will never understand
why so many people love DJ Williams.
The people who think of DJ as a great LB need to seriously get a reality check. He’s 30. He is awful in coverage. His play is inconsistent and the worst thing of all is that he has the physical tools to be an all pro linebacker, but he doesn’t have the instincts or desire to be great.
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by Nick Cast on Jan 27, 2012 4:00 AM MST reply actions 4 recs
Pretty simple.
He’s been the best we’ve had over the last 5+ years at linebacker. DJ can be a tone setter with some of his monstrous hits. And he isn’t the only one awful in coverage on our team, and even in the LB corps. Why does everyone feel the need to single out one of our best players as frequently as possible? And here’s a thought. If DJ is one of our best players, which he is, AND he has all the deficiencies that you and others say he has, then what does that say about the talent level of the rest of our team? And having said that, how does it make any sense to move one of our most talented players?
Whatcha gonna do, brother, when the Broncos run wild on you!
Saying he is the best we’ve had over the last 5+ years isn’t saying anything since our defenses over the past 5+ years have been very bad except the year we had Mike Nolan. DJ wasn’t even a top 5 defensive player for us last year.
We feel the need to single out DJ because he is supposed to be the best and has the largest contract, but there are many games where he plays just awful. DJ is a top 10 defensive player for us and there’s no doubt he has flashes of absolute greatness but he also plays like a bum a lot of the time. That inconsistency stops him from being a top 5 defensive player on this team.
I do think Wesley Woodyard could step in and do as good of a job as DJ. Woodyard isn’t as athletic and isn’t the hitter DJ is but he’s far superior in coverage and is capable of making all the tackles DJ makes.
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by Nick Cast on Jan 27, 2012 1:42 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Thank you for the reply.
You are very knowledgeable about the team, and if you think that Wood is suitable, I will defer. However, I would still like to see it go like this: Von / DJ / Wood as opposed to Von / Mays / Wood. Just my .02.
Whatcha gonna do, brother, when the Broncos run wild on you!
honestly...
I think I agree with postpunk27 here… when I saw that stat that said that DJ is the only defender we have that is above average in tackling (and only by a little), that was a bit eye-opening.
I tend to think that for the average nfl team, we’re more talent-constrained than money-constrained. If DJ is the best we got and he sucks, then we should be keep him until we have someone that is a clear upgrade over him. I think it’s pretty clear that the consensus on Woodyard isn’t that blows DJ out of the water. Some people think he’s better, some people think he’s worse… it’s splitting hairs. Woodyard had some really lame play this season. Neither of them are great.
Here’s the thing… I also just (for the first time) subscribed to pro football focus. It kind of underscored to me that we are all just fans and don’t really know a lot, other than what other people repeat. Meanwhile, PFF looks at and scores every single play. Their assessment? Woodyard is better than DJ at run defense. DJ is better than Woodyard at pass defense, although both are below average.
Wow.
Hey how much did it cost to subscribe?
Don't measure yourself by what you have accomplished, but by what you should have accomplished with your ability.
John Wooden
Believe you can and you're halfway there.
Theodore Roosevelt
it's not bad
I went ahead and went for the $30 for a year of access (for all prior games they’ve analyzed, multiple seasons).
stats request?
Would it be possible for you to post the stats for Mays? Great assessment of the data btw! Thank you.
by FanSinceTheDonHornEra on Jan 28, 2012 1:02 PM MST up reply actions
Mays
generally positive. Scored higher than DJ and Wesley (and Nate). Scored lower than Von and Haggan.
Mays scored very well in run defense, third after a long drop-off behind Von and Bunkley. He wasn’t great at pass rush, in the same general category as DJ and Ayers. He was worse at pass coverage, scoring about the same as all our safeties did. The only linebacker who scored worse in pass coverage was Woodyard. (Overall, Woodyard scored second-worst in pass coverage among defenders, just ahead of Andre Goodman.)
As far as Mays goes, he had some very visible face-palmery this season. But I think that was probably more than made up for by good workmanlike plays that are less visible. But I also think he’s why we went to nickel so much. He’s a two-down linebacker and he can be exposed in certain play-calling situations, I guess.
DJ's "big hits"
Seem to result in a ballcarrier getting hit, NOT getting wrapped up, and continuing on for a few more yards before DJ (and Champ) drag him down after he advances the ball 4 more yards.
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
Really?
Ask Roy Williams about the time he was hit by DJ.
Whatcha gonna do, brother, when the Broncos run wild on you!
1?
A sample size of 1? By that logic, why isn’t Nate Webster still here? Give me “consistently makes the tackle” over “occasionally lays a successful big hit” any day.
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
I don't understand why so many people don't like him. He's only led all LBers in many categories ever since he was drafted.
Maybe that is a tribute to our other LBers since Romo, Wilson, Gold and Mobley not being very good but who knows.
Also Woodyard is not any better as a tackler or in coverage. At least he doesn’t stand out as being much better.
Tim Tebow wears 3WM and drinks Tuscan whole milk.
by BroncoMath101 on Jan 27, 2012 4:45 PM MST up reply actions
Its really simple: move DJ back to MLB, dump Mays, start WW, and have a monster front 4
Maybe DJ is slightly miscast as a MLB compared to weakside, but Mays is miscast as an NFL LB, so it would be a win all the way around. The real culprit here is the lack of push upfront for years now. It takes a special LB to compensate for that, which neither of these guys are.
Drinkin the kool-aid, smokin the Orange Kush
by boanst on Jan 27, 2012 11:31 AM MST reply actions 2 recs
I concur.
“All he does is make tackles 9 yards down field.” Because we haven’t even had a remotely decent defensive line in front of our linebackers until this past season, when it was borderline average. We still aren’t close to where we need to be along the D-line, and every year we pass it up in the draft. I keep hearing how we need more help there, and how we are supposed to address it in the upcoming draft, only the draft comes and we walk away with safeties, linebackers, receivers, running backs etc. and to tell the truth, I don’t doubt it will be any different this year.
Whatcha gonna do, brother, when the Broncos run wild on you!
Brando Spano?
I believe many of us in here “drink” the Koolaid (we’re fans). I think Brandon “spikes” the Koolaid before he drinks! Woodyard is good for depth and ST’s….that why he’s always stayed there…Get it? He’s depth only!
"we don't plan to fail, we fail to plan"
" character is who you are, reputation is what they say about you"
"always have character, don't be one"
I can't wait to hear the comments when he writes an article on why he thinks Eddie Royal should be our #1 receiver.
Tim Tebow wears 3WM and drinks Tuscan whole milk.
No matter your opinion of DJ or Wes
This commenting thread deserves an extra rec all of its own. Everyone here is bringing some good stuff to the conversation, and doing it in a great way. THIS is MHR at its best!
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
Head scratcher.
Woodyard, no doubt, sounds like a fine man. I like him in a Broncos uniform. But when given his shots, teams run through him with impunity, he’s mediocre, at best, in coverage, and my eyes tell me that his production is very similar to the popular criticism of Williams— that is, many of his tackles are five or six yards down field. The good linebackers aren’t always running plays down. They are stopping them in the vicinity of the line of scrimmage.
I think he’s a solid 4-3 WS LB who might be better than average in a Larry Coyer type scheme. I don’t think he’s half the downhill player Williams is. I think, by and large, he benefits most from good old fashion the-grass-is-always-greener syndrome.


































