MLBs - what we have and what Fox and Del Rio historically want
There has already been a great deal of discussion about what position/player the Broncos should draft at 25 or if the Broncos should trade down and out of the first for more picks in 2012. One option for the Broncos that has been discussed is to take a MLB prospect in the first round - Hightower. To get a good idea whether or not this will happen we need to assess three things:
1. What the Broncos already have on their roster at MLB (and we are weak here)
2. What players will likely be available who could play the Mike in the NFL
3. What Fox and Del Rio have historically looked for in Mike backers
Make the jump with me and let's dig into the position that is referred to as the "QB of the defense"
The Mike LB in the 4-3 has to be able to play side-line to sideline. He has to be able to cover TEs and RBs effectively in the passing game. He has to be able to fend off blockers (at least nominally). He also has to take good angles to the ball carrier and be able to diagnose/read plays quickly so that he can get to the point of attack. With that in mind let's look at who we have on the roster.
Guys currently on the roster who can (theoretically) play the Mike backer
Joe Mays - 5'11" 250
Mays started 12 games for the Broncos in 2011. This was his first experience as a full time starter. The reviews on his play are very mixed. Statistically he tallied 75 total tackles (64 unassisted) and had 2 passes defended. I have seen it posted, although I can't find the reference, that he missed 21 tackles in 2011. If that is the case he has one of the worst miss % in the whole league. That is not a good thing from your Mike. I like stats, so I looked around at some of the sites that rate players to see where Mays fits compared to other 4-3 MLBs. According to Advanced NFL stats he ranks 47th out of the 198 guys who played LB in the NFL last year (using WPA). If you use EPA/g he ranked 92nd last year. His tackle factor (what % of his team's tackles does he make relative to the average for his position) was 0.83. That means he wasn't involved in as many tackles relative to other Mike backers in the league as a %. To put that in perspective look at the tackle factors for some of the stub MLBs in the league from last year - Fletcher 1.58, Laurinitis 1.44, Willis 1.42, Lewis 1.31. Those guys made many more tackles relative to the average Mike. Mays had 3 QB hits in 12 starts and zero sacks. He had 8 TFL, which was 40th among NFL LBs however many of those above him were pass rush specialists. The league leader Ware (OLB in a 3-4) had 26. Von had 21. Urlacher only had 9. Laurinitis had 11. Ray Lewis only had 4. After looking at all of the data I could find on Mays, he is not the answer at Mike and the Broncos need to relegate him to backup/ST/goal line roles.
LB ratings at advanced NFL stats
According to Pro Football Focus, one of the reasons why the Broncos D was playing better this year relative to 2010 is improved tackling. Through the first 11 games, the Broncos had missed the 4th least number of tackles in the league - 47 missed out of 564 attempted. If the 21 missed tackles for Mays are to be believed, then Mays alone was responsible for something like one quarter to one third of the team's missed tackles (depending on how many the Broncos missed in the final 5 game). That is pathetic.
Mario Haggan - 6'3" 274. Mario was the spot starter of the LBs. He played some for Mays and some for Miller. Haggan, despite his size, is much better in coverage than Mays (although that's not saying much). Haggan had 23 total tackles and one INT in 2011. Haggan did start one game. Advanced NFL stats rates Haggan very poorly for his 2011 work. Hagan is also very big relative to the the Mikes that Fox and JDR like for their defenses (more on this later)
Nate Irving - 6'1" 240. Irving was active for all 16 regular season games but rarely was on the field outside of special teams play. He recorded 4 total tackles (3 unassisted). He was a beast coming out of college and from all accounts is a great tackler with side-line to side-line speed and good coverage ability - a three-down Mike as opposed to Mays who is a true two down guy. However, the worry is that if Mays was as bad as some at MHR think he was in 2011 and Irving didn't get any pt at MLB, we may have a bust on our hands. The optimists among us hope that Irving's lack of pt stemmed from no training camp and being a rookie at a position that usually takes players a year (or more) to adjust to in the NFL. Time will tell. I'm hoping for the best.
Mike Mohamed - 6'3" 245. Mike was only active for two games and was cut and resigned at least once during the year. As a 7th round pick he was a long shot to make the roster and probably will never be more than a special teams player, but as Chris Harris showed, Mike could turn into our Mike.
The guys who we might take in the draft to play MLB
I'm going to assume that Keuchly and Brown (who really isn't a Mike) are gone when we pick at #25. IMHO we should stay far away from Burfict (unless he's there in the 5th), but I will list him here anyways.
So here are the top guys listed as ILBs from which we could choose if we want to go LB in the 1st. Presumably some of these guys will be available in the second, third and fourth as well.
Dont'a Hightower - 6-4, 260, 4.78 40yd. Alabama. Hightower is big and can run well. He was the captain for one of the best, if not the best, defense in college football. He missed most of his sophomore year with an injury, but other than that he has been very durable. He's projected as either the #2 or #3 best MLB prospect in the draft. He finished his college career with 21 TFL, 5 sacks, 7 PD, 1 INT. No mention is his coverage skills. Member of two national championship teams.
Audie Cole - 6-4, 248, 4.84 40yd. NCSU. Cole played beside Irving two years ago and moved over to MLB when Irving graduated. He has a good combination of size/speed/instincts. He plays fairly well in the passing game and is usually stout against the run. His limitations can be found in the link. In 51 career games he had 328 tackles, 32 TFL, 14 sacks, 8 PD, 1 INT. Three year starter for the Wolfpack.
Vontez Burfict - 6-3, 250, 4.67 40yd. Arizona State. Burfict has the physical tools to be the next Ray Lewis, but if reports are to be beleived, he is not smart enough to think his way of out a brown paper bag. This led to him getting benched during his final season at AZ State. He plays with reckless abandon, but I don't think his game is going to translate well to the NFL level. This line alone from his bio should scare the Broncos enough to pass on him unless he is there late.
"He's not as instinctive as his reputation might lead you to believe, has a soft build and hasn't shown any real improvement since first stepping onto the ASU campus."
Finished his career with 37 games played, 228 tackles, 22.5 TFL, 7 sacks, 11 PD, 1 INT
Bobby Wagner - 6-0, 241, 4.80 40yd. Utah State. Wagner started 3.5 season in college and was a tackling machine - 441 in 48 games. He impressed at the Senior Bowl and could really jump up the draft board with a good combine. Wagner played against weaker competition in the WAC than the other three guys mentioned (although it could be argued that the PAC-12 was as weak as the WAC this year). Wagner could play either MLB or OLB at the NFL level, and I have seen him listed as light as 230. Finished his college career with 29.5 TFL, 4.5 sacks, 9 PD, 4 INT.
James-Michael Johnson - 6-2, 240, 4.68 40yd. Nevada. Another WAC LB. Johnson reportedly has the same in-line speed the Burfict has. Johnson has one blaring weakness - man coverage - according to CBS sports, which sounds to me like he is a two-down Mike, ala Mays. Also like Mays he is not a good tackler in space. he has many positives, but these are the reasons he is being mocked in the 4-5 rounds in some drafts. His stock could jump if he runs really well at the combine
These are the guys who are projected to go in the first 4 rounds. Some sites also have Mychal Kendricks from Cal going in the 5th round, but I'm getting tired of discussing these guys so you can look him up here if you really are interested.
Only Keuchly and Hightower are getting first round grades at this points from most mockers.
So now here is what Fox and Del Rio like for their Mikes. Keep in mind that Del Rio played the position in the NFL.
These are the LBs who have been drafted by either Fox or Del Rio and their height and weight numbers
| Jon | Beason | 6-0 | 237 |
| Von | Miller | 6-3 | 246 |
| Will | Witherspoon | 6-1 | 234 |
| James | Anderson | 6-3 | 220 |
| Dan | Connor | 6-3 | 233 |
| Nate | Irving | 6-1 | 240 |
| Eric | Norwood | 6-0 | 246 |
| Adam | Seward | 6-3 | 253 |
| Tim | Shaw | 6-2 | 236 |
| Sean | Tufts | 6-4 | 245 |
| Mike | Mohamed | 6-3 | 239 |
| Hilee | Taylor | 6-3 | 242 |
The average listed weight of these guys is 239, the largest was Seward at 253 and he was taken in the 5th round and has never played much. Beason and Von were first rounders (Beason was the #25 pick) and next four guys on the list were taken in the 3rd round.
So here are the guys who have actually started for Fox and Del Rio is Mikes along with their height and weight
| Jon | Beason | 6-0 | 237 |
| Dan | Morgan | 6-2 | 245 |
| Will | Witherspoon | 6-1 | 234 |
| Mike | Peterson | 6-1 | 230 |
| Chris | Draft | 5-11 | 232 |
| Daryl | Smith | 6-2 | 235 |
| Dan | Connor | 6-3 | 233 |
| Kirk | Morrison | 6-1 | 238 |
| Paul | Posluszny | 6-2 | 238 |
| Joe | Mays | 5-11 | 250 |
The average weight of these guys is 237 and that is skewed by Mays and Morgan. The takeaway from this is that both our HC and our DC like the Mikes smaller and faster. With that in mind, Fox and Del Rio would be going against their history to draft a big MLB like Hightower. Cole, Wagner and Johnson all seem to fit the basic mold for what Fox and JDR like in Mike backers.
I hope you enjoyed this - I learned quite a bit while putting it together.
This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR
128 comments
|
11 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
give irving a year
he was the top 1 or 2 mlb available in the draft. so was beadles/walton at their positions, doesn’t mean he will be a stud. but we need a young cornerstone DT very, very, badly already. and some other things. next year definitely, if nate falters.
the middle of the trenches is where we still need to focus early, we’re weak there on both sides of the ball. bpa? then pick anywhere in the middle of the field(rb, c/g, dt, mlb, s), best prospect first. we could use them all
taste my blintzkrieg!
the 3-man rush is an admission of lunacy, cowardice, and defeat.
Thes kids all need time to develop in the NFL and time will tell, but
giving up on any of them after a year or two is foolish and impatient thinking when THIS team is in a dire situation that will take years to fully recover from the prior regimes. In three or four years we’ll all be looking at some fo these as studs at their respective position…
"You hate to think you have to censor your language to meet other people's lack of understanding" -Julian Bond
Follow @bfree2bronc
Irving was nominated but he was not a finalist. 2010 Butkus Award finalists
Akeem Ayers, UCLA
Bruce Carter, North Carolina
Justin Houston, Georgia
Luke Kuechly, Boston College
Von Miller, Texas A&M
Win the individual battles at the LOS - all else flows from that.
by DE_BroncoFan on Feb 16, 2012 11:12 AM MST up reply actions
Thanks DEBF! :)
I just read that he was an All American selection in 2010 by SI.com and Scout.com. I’m interested to see how he does!
I'd take Zach Brown with 25 if he was BPA and convert him to MLB. If he is there at 25 he just may be too athletic to pass up esp considering what Fox did with Beason. He has reportedly run a 4.3 40.
However I would not be surprised if we took RB or DE with our first pick. I’d like a DT but I"ll be surprised if we take one at 25.
Tim Tebow wears 3WM and drinks Tuscan whole milk.
I assumed Brown was gone at #25
Win the individual battles at the LOS - all else flows from that.
by DE_BroncoFan on Feb 13, 2012 3:47 PM MST up reply actions
Yeah I figure he'll be gone too. But if he falls I'd take him in a heart beat.
Tim Tebow wears 3WM and drinks Tuscan whole milk.
by BroncoMath101 on Feb 13, 2012 3:55 PM MST up reply actions
I would too, and the notion that players coming out of college are locked into their positions in the NFL is crazy thinking...
"You hate to think you have to censor your language to meet other people's lack of understanding" -Julian Bond
Follow @bfree2bronc
Brown's biggest issue *was* tackling.
But, that being said, tackling can be taught… especially with HC and DC both being so LB focused. That speed that he has, that might just be worth it!
So teach Mays.
That was his downfall.
"I am not better than anyone else just because I play football."
Tim Tebow
I think the biggest difference there is the style of play.
Mays doesn’t have the speed to cover, nor the technique to tackle. Brown has the speed to get where he needs to go, which is why teaching tacking is much easier. When you can get there quickly and square up for the tackle, the chances of that tackle get much better.
Not to mention, Mays is a seasoned vet. It’s much easier to mold younger players than ones who are already set in their ways, IMO.
I'm all for drafting Brown
just not moving him to MLB. Put DJ at MLB.
"I am not better than anyone else just because I play football."
Tim Tebow
I got ya.
I agree – I don’t know if Brown fits the MLB mold. He needs to be a bit nastier to fit that role. I think he’d be a way better contributor at will anyway; imagine the passrush schemes we could come up with if Brown and Miller were our two OLBs!?
If we keep DJ that would be an option I am open to.
Foxy...you WERE on the hot seat, but you fooled me you rascally old deveil...keep building that team mate!
"Tebow is a special player. I have never seen a player quite like him in my whole career! I’m gonna play all out for the guy! I know he will be out there giving 110% every play every week, so I’m gonna give 120%!:
Champ Bailey.
Cornerstone DT...
We have one… Bunkley. Very under-rated…IMO
A priority re-signing.
And another just waiting to be picked up….
Jason Jones…. @4million a year we should grab him…
Now folks that would be our cornerstone DT’s..
If there isnt a Suh or Dareus there don’t bother… look @ FA for that.
Whoever said life was short...was stupid!!
Life is the longest thing we will experience!!
by TrainDriverIvan on Feb 13, 2012 3:31 PM MST reply actions
Oops... Sorry....was a response to Davecheffy....
Whoever said life was short...was stupid!!
Life is the longest thing we will experience!!
by TrainDriverIvan on Feb 13, 2012 3:32 PM MST up reply actions
Actually Bunkley rated pretty high this year among run stopping DTs. What he lacks is pass rushing skills...
Jason Jones is a solid athlete and does better at DT even though he is lighter than most like. His skill of getting past the OLine through the Guard is much better than going against OTs.
"You hate to think you have to censor your language to meet other people's lack of understanding" -Julian Bond
Follow @bfree2bronc
I think we should draft the best player on EFX’s board with the #25 pick. I don’t think we really have many positions on the team that can’t use a upgrade in some capacity. I personally hope a CB or DT is the best available in the 1st, but I have a feeling Konz is going to be the guy, so in that hypothetical situation I guess it would come down to how/if we addressed OG/C in FA and how EFX feel about Walton and Beadles who are both young and could improve. If EFX don’t want an interior lineman or don’t value any OG or C on the board like I do (which is most likely), than I think they will likely go with the best pass rusher available at either DT or DE. I think Cox or Curry will possibly be that guy despite what draft position ranking currently show.
"If we cannot find a way, we will make one." -Hannibal
by AvalancheRescueDog on Feb 13, 2012 3:35 PM MST reply actions
After watching the draft prospects challenge last night I ready like Fletcher Cox's physicality...
"You hate to think you have to censor your language to meet other people's lack of understanding" -Julian Bond
Follow @bfree2bronc
Yeah, ESPN
"You hate to think you have to censor your language to meet other people's lack of understanding" -Julian Bond
Follow @bfree2bronc
Ya I think he is going to fly up the draft board. He seems like he will be a very good player.
"If we cannot find a way, we will make one." -Hannibal
by AvalancheRescueDog on Feb 13, 2012 4:55 PM MST up reply actions
I like Cox
I am all for picking him at 25. It would be nice to have a DT that can get into the pocket with some consistency.
"You’re only great if you win something. I mean, Alexander wasn’t Alexander the Mediocre or Alexander the Average. He was Alexander the Great, and there’s a reason for it."-Shannon Sharpe
The whole line of thought for the post came from thinking about Hightower and whether or not we take him if he is the BPA at #25
Win the individual battles at the LOS - all else flows from that.
Hightower is a better fit in a 3-4
We already have a 2 down thumper in Mays and in a 4-3, that what Hightower would end up being.
"You’re only great if you win something. I mean, Alexander wasn’t Alexander the Mediocre or Alexander the Average. He was Alexander the Great, and there’s a reason for it."-Shannon Sharpe
I think Hightower could be the exception for the prototype MLB. His instinct and tackling are very good. His size does make him ideal for the 3-4 and because of that he may not make it by San Diego, Pittsburgh, Dallas, NYJ, or Baltimore if they trade up to get him. Kuechly may be the only MLB that I would take in the 1st round at this point in time, and he will likely be off the board. Talent wise I think Burfict has it, but I wouldn’t draft him before the 3rd round.
"If we cannot find a way, we will make one." -Hannibal
by AvalancheRescueDog on Feb 13, 2012 4:33 PM MST up reply actions
Hightower is what the doctor ordered for the Steelers who draft directly in front of us.
I’m going to play Ted Bartlett on this; If anyone thought Hightower would be a great choice for us doesn’t know anything about football…
"You hate to think you have to censor your language to meet other people's lack of understanding" -Julian Bond
Follow @bfree2bronc
Hightower would be a nice fit for the Steelers
But they also need an OT like Mike Adams
TurfSharks.com
Agree
Their Oline has been a little rough, Adams might be a better pick for them.
"You’re only great if you win something. I mean, Alexander wasn’t Alexander the Mediocre or Alexander the Average. He was Alexander the Great, and there’s a reason for it."-Shannon Sharpe
Too much is being made of Irving not playing last season
And even more of May’s shortcomings. Mays was a two down thumper which statisticly puts him at a disadvantage over LBs that are 3 down LBs the way they are compared here. He had some missed tackles and was a liability in coverage, but he also had some decent plays. With that being said, he was the best option available to the Broncos in 2011. Fox has been historically nit picky about starting rookies. The veteran is going to get the benefit of the doubt with Fox, unless that rookie is an overwhelming talent like Von Miller.Von Miller was a conscensus starter and I doubt Fox wanted to start two rookies side by side in the LB corps if it could be helped. From what we are hearing, the powers that be are very high on Irving and he could very well be the answer. I think it is a bit premature to go back to the well in the draft for a Mike. Any upgrade there will most likely come through free agency. I wouldn’t be suprised to see Irving as the starter going into the season.
"You’re only great if you win something. I mean, Alexander wasn’t Alexander the Mediocre or Alexander the Average. He was Alexander the Great, and there’s a reason for it."-Shannon Sharpe
by CH74 on Feb 13, 2012 3:51 PM MST reply actions 2 recs
The statement came from a reliable source (Andre Mason) and I believe him as much as I believe Adam Shefter...
"You hate to think you have to censor your language to meet other people's lack of understanding" -Julian Bond
Follow @bfree2bronc
Having Del Rio
Is going to help upgrade the LB corps IMO. I look for them to get better all around with his coaching.
"You’re only great if you win something. I mean, Alexander wasn’t Alexander the Mediocre or Alexander the Average. He was Alexander the Great, and there’s a reason for it."-Shannon Sharpe
Another possibility with Irving.....
Nothing to back this up, but could it be that he needed another year to completely heal from his car accident injuries ? Seems like I remember talk of him not being 100% when he came back his senior year.
That definitely could be
But since he made a few appearances on special teams I bet they were just giving him time to develop and learn the defense.
TurfSharks.com
Thanks for the info on Irving. I am still hoping he can the the next Al Wilson.
Those tidbits of “insider” info are great.
Win the individual battles at the LOS - all else flows from that.
by DE_BroncoFan on Feb 13, 2012 5:27 PM MST up reply actions
I don't think we should look at the next draft thinking about any position.
But we should be looking at the BPA at our positions of need: CB, DT, RB, MLB
This signature was sacked by Von Miller.
I bleed Orange & Blue. GB².
I think they (EFX) will Fabio...
"You hate to think you have to censor your language to meet other people's lack of understanding" -Julian Bond
Follow @bfree2bronc
Me too
I mentioned MLB, but for example I don’t think we will grab any. First of all because at the first / second rounds we’ll be able to select a better prospect than the mikes. And after the third is a waste of pick, since any out there late would be better than Nate Irving.
This signature was sacked by Von Miller.
I bleed Orange & Blue. GB².
by Fabio Broncos on Feb 13, 2012 4:45 PM MST up reply actions
FA is the way to go for the Mike
If it looks like Irving isn’t going to pan out and Mays feels he needs a payday.
"You’re only great if you win something. I mean, Alexander wasn’t Alexander the Mediocre or Alexander the Average. He was Alexander the Great, and there’s a reason for it."-Shannon Sharpe
I don't expect anything but ST about Mays after this season.
So the key here is Nate Irving. I’m confident our coaching staff can evualte him properly and decide what to do… If they realize Nate won’t step up, I agree with you and I think they will sign a FA one, and not draft a mike.
This signature was sacked by Von Miller.
I bleed Orange & Blue. GB².
by Fabio Broncos on Feb 13, 2012 4:53 PM MST up reply actions
Sounds like they are close to having it figured out
If you believe Mason anyway.
"You’re only great if you win something. I mean, Alexander wasn’t Alexander the Mediocre or Alexander the Average. He was Alexander the Great, and there’s a reason for it."-Shannon Sharpe
With what we have for depth at the linebacker position I would take Audie Cole in the 2nd rd.
Some analyst may have him higher and some may have him lower than where we pick in the 2nd of it is just a matter of opinion just like us. I’ve watched Cole pllay and he is very physical and attacks the point of the play all the way to the whistle. Sure he misses now and again, but the talent is there and with our coaching could turn into a beast of a LB sooner more than later.
I’m really hoping we grab one of the pass rushing DTs with the first pick and consider that a huge upgrade to the pass rush we have inside.
"You hate to think you have to censor your language to meet other people's lack of understanding" -Julian Bond
Follow @bfree2bronc
I like Audie Cole and I wouldn't be sad with this pick
However I’m still on the bandwagon for Nate Irving in 2012. And in case of failure I’ll lead the “trade-up for Te’o” bandwagon.
I’d also like to pick a pass rushing DT or a top-3 CB who slides to #25 because of any reason.
This signature was sacked by Von Miller.
I bleed Orange & Blue. GB².
by Fabio Broncos on Feb 13, 2012 4:51 PM MST up reply actions
Oh yes fabio, I'm one of the minorities that think Irving will come around...
The only answer for that to confirm it is that Fox wanted a veteran’s presence in the middle and I don’t blame him with that as Irving is a rwa talent with no offseason schedule to get him on track of the scheme and system. Von Miller and Orlando Franklin started much out of need and both played fairly well for rookies with an offseason regimen and Von barely scratched the surface of his potential. Sure Franklin struggled a bit in the pass blocking game and who wouldn’t coming out of college a Left Guard, but he too showed progress and i believe he will get better at his position everyone says he should be playing.
What’s good about Cole is he can play across the 2nd line of defense and necessariy wouldn’t be classified as a MLB solely. He could play SOLB when Miller moves up or play the WOLB if EFX decide to unload the salary of DJ Williams. Either way, drafting Audie Cole wouldn’t hurt us in the 2nd rd…IMHO…
"You hate to think you have to censor your language to meet other people's lack of understanding" -Julian Bond
Follow @bfree2bronc
Nate Irving is going to have to step up
With the 25th pick we need to look at Janoris Jenkins, Lamar Miller, Fletcher Cox, or Dontari Poe in that order.
TurfSharks.com
I agree with you, and Brockers / Still might fall to our spot also.
This signature was sacked by Von Miller.
I bleed Orange & Blue. GB².
by Fabio Broncos on Feb 13, 2012 4:46 PM MST up reply actions
Brockers would be ideal
I’ll be keeping my fingers crossed on draft day hoping he slips to us. I don’t think there is any way Devon Still falls out of the top 10 much less past the Seachickens but you never know how things are going to play out.
TurfSharks.com
Me too (YN)
This signature was sacked by Von Miller.
I bleed Orange & Blue. GB².
by Fabio Broncos on Feb 13, 2012 4:54 PM MST up reply actions
I am high on Hightower, no pun intended
Burifect also was terrible in coverage and as you said, appears to lack the mental capacity to function effectively in the NFL. The other guys you listed I think are probably at or about the same as who we have.
I think Elway and Xanders have made it pretty clear that playing at a top flight program and producing in those programs will play into evaluation of the upper level draft picks, one reasone why I think Hightower will be the pick, even though some would say he is more suited to a 3-4, I think he can play both and has shown to be a leader and smart, something I also think Elway values.
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun" - Ash from Army of Darkness
"H.I., you're young and you got your health, what you want with a job?" - Evelle from Raising Arizona
"It happens sometimes. People just explode. Natural causes." - Agent Rogersz from Repoman
How effective is he going to be late in games in coverage?
260 is a lot of weight to carry around in coverage, especially when you play the majority of your games at a Mile High. I think his size could become a liability late in games. If you draft a Mike that high, he better be a 3 down LB. I don’t think Hightower can be, at least not for very long.
"You’re only great if you win something. I mean, Alexander wasn’t Alexander the Mediocre or Alexander the Average. He was Alexander the Great, and there’s a reason for it."-Shannon Sharpe
Urlacher is listed as 258 and he plays every down.
R. McClain is 255. Laurinitis is 250. Those two guys are also 3 down MLBs. But they aren’t many with that kind of size.
Win the individual battles at the LOS - all else flows from that.
by DE_BroncoFan on Feb 13, 2012 5:45 PM MST up reply actions
None of those guys play their games at a MIle High either
Hightower is only going to get bigger. Urlacher was no where near 258 when he was drafted, if fact he played RB, WR, and DB when he was in high school 100 miles down the road from me in Lovington NM. Urlacher got to 258 because he is a workout warrior. McClain is hardly a model LB in coverage. Laurinitis is decent at best.
"You’re only great if you win something. I mean, Alexander wasn’t Alexander the Mediocre or Alexander the Average. He was Alexander the Great, and there’s a reason for it."-Shannon Sharpe
Definitely a need.
Regarding Burfict, it turns out he wasn’t benched, but had actually gone missing for a few weeks during the season. They found him trapped inside a large paper sack.
I’m hearing good things about Wagner and Kendricks. And I’m enamored with Arkansas’ Jerry Franklin.
There's no way Khloe's a Kardashian. No frickin' way.
by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Feb 13, 2012 5:11 PM MST reply actions 2 recs
He was only able to escape from the bag
When the sprinkers on the quad came on and soaked the bag thoroughly.
"You’re only great if you win something. I mean, Alexander wasn’t Alexander the Mediocre or Alexander the Average. He was Alexander the Great, and there’s a reason for it."-Shannon Sharpe
I'll take a big dumb mean ass tackling machine like Burfict
He will be a perennial pro bowler and I’ll listen to his coach when it comes to his football smarts instead of his OLB whom he probably stole his girlfriend then beat his ass.
"Vegetarians are cool. All I eat are vegetarians - except for the occasional mountain lion steak "
Ted Nugent
His coach?
Dennis Erickson called Burfict’s season “pretty average” plus Burfict refused to go back into the Cal game after getting benched for multiple personal fouls. I’d be surprised if Erickson issues a glowing recommendation.
by Broncologist on Feb 14, 2012 12:33 PM MST up reply actions
If we dont develop our guys from last year
what use is it draftin anyone else to ride the bench? … Our HC and DC BOTH played and coached LB…Ifn I was Elway, Id say “you guys fix it, NO more picks for LB [ or Safety for that matter]…now who is up for DT or CB….” I just dont think our LB newbie guys have had proper opportunity…DRAFT another rookie trying to catch up to the speed of the game? I think maybe FA ifn we need help there. When Rebuilding, we cant waste picks on early repeats…
by Denverkewl on Feb 13, 2012 9:17 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
Spot on Kewl...
Whatsmore I doubt Elway will allow that. Thats just dumb management. However, if they do draft a Mike I will look at Irving as a bust purely from that standpoint.
Not too far away is drafting another CB. Drafting that position is a crap shoot more than any other. Teams may have to pay for proven CBs in FA, however the cards are more favorable that way. Not to mention the 3 years it typically takes to develop…..
*** The difference between stupidity and genius is genius has it's limits...
**** The best way to eliminate a bad law is to inforce it...
***** Don't follow me on twitter
So that should mean that Alphonso Smith guy we drafted should be coming into his own this year...
Crap! We traded him for a bag of peanuts and a warm beer. :-(
Win the individual battles at the LOS - all else flows from that.
by DE_BroncoFan on Feb 14, 2012 5:28 AM MST up reply actions
Unless we sign a free agent, then we might draft a LB from the the 5th on for depth...
"You hate to think you have to censor your language to meet other people's lack of understanding" -Julian Bond
Follow @bfree2bronc
by bfree2bronc on Feb 14, 2012 11:32 AM MST up reply actions
Great, great post. Rec'd
"It's all over fat man!"
-Tom Jackson
"When John Elway is standing in lava with a football, he will stay there and sink until you're open"
-Seanbaby
For what it's worth
Denver ended the season with a 9.7% missed tackle rate. That’s worse than in week 11, but I don’t know how the rest of the league did either, it’s always possible that the entire rest of the league did worse as the league went on, too.
Through Week 11, Mays had a 15.3% MT rate. Through the rest of the regular season, he dropped to a 12.9% MT rate. But against Pittsburgh he missed seven tackles. For the entire season including playoffs, he had a 19.1% MT rate.
Mays was responsible for 20.2% of the team’s missed tackles, and 9.5% of the team’s tackles.
Here are the other three worst missed tackle rates for the season:
Rahim Moore: 25.6%
Champ Bailey: 18.5%
Andre’ Goodman: 17.4%
At the other end of the spectrum, well a lot of people had good tackle rates, but the ones that jumped out either from really low rates, or scoring a lot of tackles:
Chris Harris (3rd most tackles on the team): 6.4%
Wesley Woodyard: 4.5% (he has an uncommonly high number of assists though)
Von Miller: 0.0%
Some others had zero missed tackles, but mostly because they didn’t get lots of playing time. Von had 42 tackles. The next-highest 0-missed-tackles guy was Ryan McBean.
In Mays’ favor, he had the most “Stops” on the team, by a wide margin. That’s evidence of good instincts, I guess. But the missed tackling means poor technique.
Where did you find this data Tune? I couldn't find a free site that had it.
Win the individual battles at the LOS - all else flows from that.
by DE_BroncoFan on Feb 14, 2012 5:29 AM MST up reply actions
I don't know what scares me more
The fact that our starting MLB missed one 1 out of 5 tackles or the fact that our future HOF CB was not much better.
Win the individual battles at the LOS - all else flows from that.
by DE_BroncoFan on Feb 14, 2012 5:31 AM MST up reply actions
yeah
I’m not sure what to make of that. I will say that generally, it makes sense that the missed tackle rate would go up as you get further back. You’ve got your two edge corners and your MLB (who is often on an island) with the highest missed tackle rates.
On the other hand, Chris Harris did extremely well.
On the other other hand, Harris was mostly nickel, and short routes are arguably easier to tackle. I dunno, I’m just spit-balling now.
I recall many of the missed tackles by Mays were at the LOS. He simply doesn’t wrap up.
"If we cannot find a way, we will make one." -Hannibal
by AvalancheRescueDog on Feb 14, 2012 12:42 PM MST up reply actions
IMO Ryan McBean had a pretty good year with 4 sacks and zero missed tackles.
If he can just tone down the sloppy Personal fouls when he get’s tired he’d be OK…
"You hate to think you have to censor your language to meet other people's lack of understanding" -Julian Bond
Follow @bfree2bronc
by bfree2bronc on Feb 14, 2012 11:36 AM MST up reply actions
I'm about to start the official 'Say No To Dan Connor' MHR Petition.
Nothing personal against the guy I just don’t see the obsession with the guy. He’s a sure tackler for the most part but he has pedestrian athleticism and is a liability in coverage. I’d much rather have Irving playing MLB this year granted he’s mentally ready. I want a true upgrade at the position not Dan freakin’ Connor.
Hightower to me is purely a 3-4, two down, ILB. Although I do think he’ll be a good ’backer. I love Burfict if he could ever get his head straight. The kid from BC is a definite no go for me. The Cole kid from NC State seems limited athletically as well. And any other prospect is somewhat of a project to me… and we need to upgrade the talent all over our team, not add projects.
by JuiceIsLoose on Feb 13, 2012 10:41 PM MST reply actions 2 recs
After looking at Connor's stats while doing the research for this post I have to agree with you.
His numbers are fairly pedestrian.
19 career starts between 2010 and 2011. 136 tackles (7 tackles per start). 1 PD. 1 sack.
Advanced NFL stats actually ranks him lower than Mays.
Win the individual battles at the LOS - all else flows from that.
by DE_BroncoFan on Feb 14, 2012 5:40 AM MST up reply actions
I said this on a different post.
Wouldn’t it be funny if Fox doesn’t even like Connor and would never consider bringing him to Denver?
"I am not better than anyone else just because I play football."
Tim Tebow
I guess everyone is assuming that if you are a LB who played college ball at PSU than you must be great.
Win the individual battles at the LOS - all else flows from that.
by DE_BroncoFan on Feb 14, 2012 6:29 AM MST up reply actions
I think you've summed up the problem quite well.
- - No one believe Joe Mays is the long-term answer.
- - What worse, no one believes Joe Mays is the near-term answer.
- - There aren’t any near-term answers in this draft class.
- - We’re left with F.A. to find a near-term answer.
- - There aren’t any great answers available in F.A.
…which means we’re left hoping Dan Connor’s better than we all believe.
There's no way Khloe's a Kardashian. No frickin' way.
by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Feb 14, 2012 6:51 AM MST up reply actions
Patience will be the order of the day at MLB
Irving and Mohammed aren’t going anywhere, and Del Fox will want to see what can happen with an offseason to work with them. Mays will probably be a relatively easy resign for camp, but the back half of the “John Fox Cross” is completely missing from his toolset: no coverage ability. Dan Connor has the same problem, so I don’t see Denver signing him when they can get Mays cheaper.
There aren’t any names in the draft that I am interested in, outside of developmental guys like Irving and Mo. However, there is a free agent that I crave, and I think Denver should make a play for him, though I can’t imagine the Redskins letting him even test the waters: London Fletcher. He is older, but he is a smart, sure tackler, and in the top 2 or 3 in terms of ILB coverage ability. Maybe teams will go hog wild pursuing Tulloch (one of the few ILBs with better coverage skills than Fletcher). Having a 3-down ILB would be huge for our defense, and the right kind of contract (perhaps something similar to what brought Dawkins to Denver) could be the kind of veteran stop gap move that buys us a few years to both develop young guys or take an early round choice in a better year than this one for ILBs.
The chances of actually getting Fletcher from the Redskins? I would say less than 5%. It isn’t like when Dawkins left Philly, and the front office was basically playing it coy on whether they wanted to keep him in Philly or not. The Redskins organization from top down, including Shanny, has basically said that there is no way that Fletcher will even get a chance to test the waters. They aren’t acting lukewarm at all, and they have lots of cap room, and more importantly, cash.
On the other hand, he’ll be 37, and deserving of a lot of money….no guarantees that the Redskins can’t find other options at ILB.
So in a nutshell, I would resign Mays, but only for the going price of a young, 2 down ILB, make an offer to Fletcher, and ignore ILBs in the 2012 draft, preferring to grab a few CFA’s after the dust settles. Go into camp with at least Irving, Mo and Mays and a CFA or two.
Perseverance, secret of all triumph.
by Jeremy Bolander on Feb 13, 2012 11:33 PM MST reply actions
Fletcher is to NFL LBs what Darrel Green was to CBs.
He has found the fountain of youth. At the age of 37 he had his most productive year (or many productive years)
166 tackles, 1.5 sacks, 2 INT, 8 PD, 2 FF
I’d love to sign him, despite my earlier opposition to doing so, but you’re right, the Skins are going to let him get away.
Win the individual battles at the LOS - all else flows from that.
by DE_BroncoFan on Feb 14, 2012 5:50 AM MST up reply actions
Aren't?
"You hate to think you have to censor your language to meet other people's lack of understanding" -Julian Bond
Follow @bfree2bronc
by bfree2bronc on Feb 14, 2012 11:57 AM MST up reply actions
A guy who i'd like to see in the list is Zach Brown
He fits the makeup as a Fox/Rio LB. He’s freakishly athletic, side line to side line speed. Good tackler, but by all accounts he’s a Weakside backer.
Could Fox and Del Rio turn him into a Mike backer? Sure, but he will be a first round pick, and it will take sometime to develop him, so would it be worth it?
I don't see Brown lasting until the 25th pick.
Win the individual battles at the LOS - all else flows from that.
by DE_BroncoFan on Feb 14, 2012 5:50 AM MST up reply actions
Neither do i sadly
right now he’s a late 1st early 2nd pick, but i think he’ll blow up at the combine
by Scotty Payne on Feb 14, 2012 5:53 AM MST up reply actions
Tell me Scotty, if Zach Brown, Fletcher Cox, Melvin Ingram or Lamar Miller are still on the board when we pick which one would you take?
"You hate to think you have to censor your language to meet other people's lack of understanding" -Julian Bond
Follow @bfree2bronc
by bfree2bronc on Feb 14, 2012 12:03 PM MST up reply actions
Ingram
and pray Doug Martin is there in the 2nd
by Scotty Payne on Feb 15, 2012 3:37 PM MST up reply actions
Why waste picks talking about this when we drafted TWO last year?
And VON makes 3? How many picks do we spend on this?
it's pointless to debate Keuchly since he most definitely won't be there at #25 unless he has a horrible combine
Win the individual battles at the LOS - all else flows from that.
by DE_BroncoFan on Feb 14, 2012 1:14 PM MST up reply actions
Sure tackler, smart, elite instincts, and great leadership….. Yep, he sure doesn’t fit with what EFX would want at MLB.
"If we cannot find a way, we will make one." -Hannibal
by AvalancheRescueDog on Feb 14, 2012 12:39 PM MST up reply actions
Slow, and not the best in coverage
EFX wants an athletic MLB
by Scotty Payne on Feb 15, 2012 3:38 PM MST up reply actions
Then why does everybody think DJ has to go?
"I am not better than anyone else just because I play football."
Tim Tebow
His cap number
plus he sucks in coverage. I’d keep him, he’s our best all around LB, but idk if he deserves that cap number.
I love but hate DJ personally. He has good games, then he has terrible games, he isnt a leader, but i would keep him. If a team would offer us a 3rd or a starter in return for him? I’d do it and let Woodyard play WLB
by Scotty Payne on Feb 15, 2012 4:06 PM MST up reply actions
If the problem were truly just his money
you should be willing to let him go just to be rid of his contract, so obviously it’s more. You got a thing for Woodyard.
"I am not better than anyone else just because I play football."
Tim Tebow
DJ is a hell of a lot more athletic than Woodyard.
"I am not better than anyone else just because I play football."
Tim Tebow
Woodyard is a better football player then DJ
by Scotty Payne on Feb 15, 2012 4:32 PM MST up reply actions
DJ is vastly overrated by many of you on here
He’s a good player, but not great as many of you act like he is.
by Scotty Payne on Feb 15, 2012 4:32 PM MST up reply actions
I don't think he's great.
Just very above average.
"I am not better than anyone else just because I play football."
Tim Tebow
No he's not.
He may have more heart and is a nicer human being. That’s about it.
"I am not better than anyone else just because I play football."
Tim Tebow
I disagree.
He’s a solid starter, and would start on many teams. I think he would be more consistent than DJ.
I do agree, better heart and much better person than DJ. He’s also a leader.
by Scotty Payne on Feb 15, 2012 4:56 PM MST up reply actions
Nope that's it. I'd like to keep him, but i would at least entertain trade offers for him
see what his value is. If we resign woodyard, which seems like a priority, he could step in as a starter at the WLB. if we didnt have anybody to replace DJ, i wouldnt even think about it.
I’m sure the Eagles would love to have DJ on their team, they have a unhappy Asante Samuel…lets make that swap.
by Scotty Payne on Feb 15, 2012 4:41 PM MST up reply actions
You're not getting my point.
Maybe we can get something for him. You are you’re getting rid of his high cap number.
"I am not better than anyone else just because I play football."
Tim Tebow
I don't see a MLB in this draft
I think they will bring mays back or sign another cheap veteran in the hope that Nate Irving is ready . Although if Burfict were to be available at the time the Broncos are on the clock in round three and DelRio thinks he could work with him they might take him.I don’t think he slides that far in the draft though . Could Nate Irving play the weak side position If they traded DJ and didn’t sign Woodward ? Might be a scary set of linebackers Miller ,Burfict and Irving . Just don’ see that happening . They will roll with Irving and Mays more than likely and if Irving can’t do the job they will get one in the draft next year when Monte Teo or Tom Wort of Oklahoma are available next year.
We gave up a draft pick for Mays
and he will probably come cheaper than another FA who will backup Irving.
"I am not better than anyone else just because I play football."
Tim Tebow
ok just a former jags fan pitching in here
i read most of the article but in regards to MLB i can kinda tell you what JDR looks for.
He likes first off for the mike to be a tough, good tackler. they need to run well(not like Jon Beason or patrick willis) but they have to be able to get from sideline to sideline. Coverage isnt a big deal and athleticism isnt a huge deal either. He would rather have a solid MLB rather than a flashy athlete
so basically they have to be a good enough athlete to perform at the Mike position but the emphasis would be on tackling shedding blocks and being just a tough player
our former MLB-Mike peterson, Daryl Smith(1 season), and Paul Posluszny
hope that helps atleast as far as what JDR likes
Cold Blooded
Thanks for your input.
Those guys are listed up there. I included them since I wanted to see what JDR liked at MLB as well. see above
Win the individual battles at the LOS - all else flows from that.
by DE_BroncoFan on Feb 14, 2012 8:41 AM MST up reply actions
I would think that the draft war room will be open to JDR, but I wouldn't let him have any influence with DE picking not after Harvey and Glover and the picks they give for them...
"You hate to think you have to censor your language to meet other people's lack of understanding" -Julian Bond
Follow @bfree2bronc
by bfree2bronc on Feb 14, 2012 12:07 PM MST up reply actions
Sounds like I could buy into that. Guess we should not write off WW then!
Foxy...you WERE on the hot seat, but you fooled me you rascally old deveil...keep building that team mate!
"Tebow is a special player. I have never seen a player quite like him in my whole career! I’m gonna play all out for the guy! I know he will be out there giving 110% every play every week, so I’m gonna give 120%!:
Champ Bailey.
Good stuff
I too am not thrilled with the draft and FA options available… best bet is to hope Irving develops.
I don’t follow college ball enough, but there also might be options of bigger/slower safeties in college that could potentially transition to LB as a late round/UDFA developmental pickup… these guys probably don’t have the coverage skills to play NFL DB, but may be good enough for an LB. Such players doesn’t help much this year, but Urlacher and Woodyard are 2 examples of college safeties that became NFL-caliber LBs.
Mays is okay as a stop gap, and I think should be resigned for depth (assuming price is right)… but unless/until Irving steps up, I think we’ll continue to prioritize an upgrade at the position… Mays’ lack of coverage skills doesn’t help our young safeties, which in general made our interior pass defense well below average last year… the inability to cover the short outlet routes/middle zones also negates our biggest strength on DEF (passrush), so upgrading in that area has to be a priority.
I'd re-sign Mays if he's willing to take what he got last year and try to improve on his pass coverage skills and offensive reads...
"You hate to think you have to censor your language to meet other people's lack of understanding" -Julian Bond
Follow @bfree2bronc
by bfree2bronc on Feb 14, 2012 12:08 PM MST up reply actions
Woodyard?
What are his stats? Is there any chance he fits the Fox profile or do we move DJ to the middle and plug woodyard into his spot?
Woodyard is listed as 6-0 229 on the official roster, so he fits the mold for smaller faster Mikes that Fox and JDR like.
Woodyard started 6 games in 2011 and had 90 tackles, 2 PD and 2 FF. Tunesmith can chime in with Woody’s missed tackle numbers from 2011.
I use to think that Woodyard was good in coverage, but I am starting to realize that I was wrong. He is better than Mays, but not as good as DJ.
Win the individual battles at the LOS - all else flows from that.
by DE_BroncoFan on Feb 15, 2012 6:45 AM MST up reply actions
I think Woody's #1 strength
is his ability to muck around near the line as a WLB, without getting fully blocked or run out of the play. Call it “staying clean” for lack of a better phrase. It means he is usually in a position to make a play. I think he could survive a move inside (he did a lot of WILB in the 3-4), but the coverage, and ultimately the game to game pounding he would take would limit his productivity there.
Are we talking about Woodyard as an upgrade over Mays? Sign one and let the other go? It is an interesting conundrum. My gut feeling is that Woodyard walks and Mays is signed relatively cheap. What one has to do with the other, I doubt we will ever know….
Perseverance, secret of all triumph.
by Jeremy Bolander on Feb 15, 2012 12:48 PM MST up reply actions
This was awesome man
There’s a player out of Kentucky… Danny Trevathan… who I think just might fit Fox’s & Del Rio’s mold. He is a sure tackler, he is a violent hitter, has great speed, and had some insane college production.
"If you went to the Fair with this guy and you played that game where you have to throw the ball through the hole..... he may never get it through the hole, but he's still gonna be walking away with all the stuffed animals!" Prime's commentary on our very own Tim Tebow!!!
"As iron sharpens iron, so will one man sharpen another." The Bible, by way of Tim Tebow.
"If I had to choose between an abundance of football intelligence, or football wisdom, I'd choose wisdom every single time...... John Fox has enough football wisdom to be carried in a dump truck." Me!
same size and same school as Woodyard. He is being projected to go in the 6th rnd.
Win the individual battles at the LOS - all else flows from that.
by DE_BroncoFan on Feb 16, 2012 11:20 AM MST up reply actions
Look at it his way....
Who has more upside? DJ or WW? I think WW does all around…wouldn’t be surprised to see WW Irving and Miller starting team…
Agreed
DJ is good, just inconsistent and doesnt make impactful plays at all.
by Scotty Payne on Feb 15, 2012 5:05 PM MST up reply actions
unless he is forcing fumbles against the Dolphins so that we can win in overtime :-)
Win the individual battles at the LOS - all else flows from that.
by DE_BroncoFan on Feb 16, 2012 11:21 AM MST up reply actions
Thats the thing with DJ...
Know he could be GREAT but SO inconsistent. He has talent to be one of the best in the NFL. Hope JDR can crawl inside his skull a bit and bring out that consistency!
Foxy...you WERE on the hot seat, but you fooled me you rascally old deveil...keep building that team mate!
"Tebow is a special player. I have never seen a player quite like him in my whole career! I’m gonna play all out for the guy! I know he will be out there giving 110% every play every week, so I’m gonna give 120%!:
Champ Bailey.
I like a lot...
the analysis and the whole post…..
Thanks man!!!
thanks
Win the individual battles at the LOS - all else flows from that.
by DE_BroncoFan on Feb 21, 2012 11:43 AM MST up reply actions

by 



































