Offseason notes

by swg777 on Feb 18, 2012 4:08 PM MST

Jeremy LIn vs. Tim Tebow - One of the most annoying mantras during the Tim Tebow phenomenon was listening to people say "I doubt Tim Tebow would be as popular if he were a Muslim." Similarly, people are saying that Jeremy Lin would not be as popular if he were black. Most are saying these things with condemnation. I say they are right in their assertion and wrong in their condemnation. There is nothing wrong with liking a player you identify with.

I am secure enough in my beliefs to not be offended at Asian fans finding hope in Lin, or in Evangelicals finding a hero and role model in Tim Tebow. Similarly, I wouldn't be offended at a Muslim football player being a hero to Muslim youth, etc. Was it wrong for thousands of Latin American youth to idolize Roberto Clemente? Was it wrong for China to idolize Yao Ming? Was it wrong for Jewish fans to idolize Hank Greenberg? Of course it wasn't.

I am a gigantic fan of Jeremy Lin and I am rooting for his continued success, partially due to his race. Is that wrong?

Press Coverage and the NFL - Possibly the most worthless event in the NFL is a press conference. Coaches and players seldom say anything of relevance. You will get virtually zero information about injuries. More annoying than that is that players and coaches will almost never say anything bad about the opposing team. I miss the days when players and coaches said that they hated the other team and made fun of them with every opportunity.

The funniest thing is when players or coaches say something completely worthless, and the press and/or fans find hidden meaning in it. I will never forget when a member of the press asked Josh McDaniels what his draft strategy was. McD responded by saying that his strategy was "best player available at a position of need." I remember the media and fans responded to that statement by acting like it was a big "tell." In reality, the statement is inherently meaningless and gives you no new information.

Another example is John Elway saying that Tim Tebow is our starter going into training camp. The media and fans ran with this and thought it was an earth shattering statement. However, several days passed and people realized that this was also a meaningless statement. This statement really says nothing, while appearing to be breaking news.

Finally, my latest pet peeve is when teams say they are going to "build through the draft." This implies that other teams don't take the draft as seriously as those who consciously decided to "build through the draft." I have news for you, just because the Bears added a big free agent in Julius Peppers doesn't mean they decided to ignore the draft. A team that decides to add big free agents doesn't necessarily mean they will not emphasize the draft. Don't get me wrong, I think high-priced free agents are often the wrong way to build a team, long-term, but you can still build through the draft and acquire quality free agents at the same time.

Elvis Dumervil - I keep forgetting to mention something. The knock on Elvis was that he was always weak against the run. The last two years, Elvis has concentrated in the weight room and has obviously improved his strength. This season, I can say, with confidence, that he wasn't a major liability against the run. At worst, Elvis was average to good in his run stopping ability. I think he also made a concerted effort to improve gap discipline, which helped, and could be attributed to sound coaching. Whatever the cause, Elvis has shown great improvement against the run and I give him a thumbs up for that.

Is middle linebacker the toughest position to learn as a rookie? I don't think it is. Many people have suggested this when trying to defend Nate Irving. First of all, I acknowledge I don't have statistical evidence, I just have my own observations. My opinion is that cornerback or defensive tackle is much more difficult of an adjustment from college to the NFL. Think of Mason Foster, James Laurinaitis, Sean Lee, Rolando McClain, Brandon Spikes, and many others who don't immediately come to mind. These guys started almost immediately and were not that big of a liability. Look at Patrick Peterson, Prince Amukamara, Joe Haden, Jimmy Smith, B.J. Raji, and Jason Pierre Paul. These guys were not overly impressive at their positions their first year.

Trade up / trade down? I'm kind of sick of seeing everyone act like they KNOW the most prudent course of action in this upcoming draft is to definitely trade down. It bugs me for a few reasons. First, you or I have no idea what the board will look like on draft day. We also don't have a great idea yet of how strong this draft is and where the value will be. There are many indications, but we still have a long way to go. Second, last year, we were very close to actually trading up to pick Nick Fairley. If EFX were close to pulling the trigger back then, why wouldn't they be willing to do it again? My bias tends to be trading up because the early picks tend to have the best players!

The Combine - The Combine is almost here and whether people admit it or not, the event DOES effect draft status. I think the Combine holds way too much sway with teams, but what do I know? There are always several different workout warriors that get over drafted. Now that the Al Davis has passed and the Raiders have no draft picks, maybe the workout warriors won't do as well this year. With that said, I am looking at a few things when it comes to this Combine. I'm not looking as much at potential top ten picks, like last year. Here are just a few interests I will have:

1. Is Dontari Poe the next Phil Taylor, or is he the next Cam Thomas?

2. Will Brandon Boykin run a 4.3 40 and enter the first round discussion?

3. Which running back looks most like a 21 year old version of Willis McGahee?

4. Will Coby Fleener run a 4.6 40 while measuring in at 6'6" and 250 + pounds? I'm not suggesting we would pick a first round TE, but I'm very interested in his skills.

5. How fast is Mark Barron?

6. Who is the most athletic DE?

7. Which linebacker shows the best change of direction?

8. How athletic are Luke Kuechly and Vontaze Burflict?

9. Which WR will run the fastest 40?

10. Which prospect's value sinks the most and becomes a great 2nd or 3rd round pick?

Speaking of trading up - In the first round, there are some players who could fall, and would be a good candidate to trade up for. Here are a few:

Trent Richardson RB - An elite RB prospect who I would go after if he fell out of the top ten

Michael Brockers DT - If he fell out of the top fifteen, I would consider trading up

Luke Kuechly LB - If he fell out of the top fifteen, I would consider trading up

Devon Still DT - If he fell out of the top twenty, I would consider trading up

Dre Kirkpatrick CB - If he fell out of the top fifteen, I would consider trading up

Melvin Ingram DE - If he fell out of the top twenty, I would consider trading up

This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR

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Comments

Phil Taylor or Cam Thomas? They both underwhelm in the NFL. I don’t get your comparison.

Love that last part about trading up. Good targets you picked. I hate trading up but it worked with Revis, Cutler and Clay Matthews. If you have great scouts. Do it. If you have McJedi… Don’t.

Tim Tebow is Denver's 2012 starting QB. I'm not even kind of sorry that offends some of you (including you Elway).

by McGeorge on Feb 18, 2012 6:32 PM MST reply actions

Ummm

Phil Taylor was a stallion this last season as a rookie. He is just scraping the surface of his potential also. Cam Thomas has been the opposite.

by swg777 on Feb 18, 2012 6:37 PM MST up reply actions

Phil Taylor was up and down as a rookie. Lots of both. Cam Thomas was a 5th round pick that plays like a 5th round pick.

Tim Tebow is Denver's 2012 starting QB. I'm not even kind of sorry that offends some of you (including you Elway).

by McGeorge on Feb 19, 2012 8:15 AM MST up reply actions

McGeorge,

I’m not sure if you have had your coffee yet. I’m not comparing them in terms of draft slot. I’m comparing them in terms of the player.

by swg777 on Feb 19, 2012 8:33 AM MST up reply actions

let us all pray that those young Charger D-Lineman NEVER get "it"

Let’s see…. we have Cam Thomas… remember Vaughn Martin (Canadian prospect that’s 340, but has the athleticism of a 280 lb. man)…. and now Corey Liuget. Guys, if all those young players all click at the same time, we are in some trouble. That is about as athletic a core of D-Lineman that I’ve ever seen.

"If you went to the Fair with this guy and you played that game where you have to throw the ball through the hole..... he may never get it through the hole, but he's still gonna be walking away with all the stuffed animals!" Prime's commentary on our very own Tim Tebow!!!

"As iron sharpens iron, so will one man sharpen another." The Bible, by way of Tim Tebow.

"If I had to choose between an abundance of football intelligence, or football wisdom, I'd choose wisdom every single time...... John Fox has enough football wisdom to be carried in a dump truck." Me!

by PaleHorse78 on Feb 20, 2012 11:32 AM MST up reply actions

Thats why we should go get Mario Williams!

Foxy...you WERE on the hot seat, but you fooled me you rascally old deveil...keep building that team mate!

"Tebow is a special player. I have never seen a player quite like him in my whole career! I’m gonna play all out for the guy! I know he will be out there giving 110% every play every week, so I’m gonna give 120%!:

Champ Bailey.

by boydy2669 on Feb 20, 2012 11:44 AM MST up reply actions

Not a terrible idea.

If you’re going to spend huge, might as well sign a 27 year old superstar.

Tim Tebow is Denver's 2012 starting QB. I'm not even kind of sorry that offends some of you (including you Elway).

by McGeorge on Feb 22, 2012 11:09 AM MST up reply actions

Not something I worry about.

AJ Smith isn’t a genius. Cam Thomas, Luiget and Martin are not about to turn into the Giants D-line.

They’ll be lucky if Cam Thomas and Martin ever become Marcus Thomas good.

Tim Tebow is Denver's 2012 starting QB. I'm not even kind of sorry that offends some of you (including you Elway).

by McGeorge on Feb 22, 2012 11:10 AM MST up reply actions

Point.

The Raiders are not building through the draft.

"I am not better than anyone else just because I play football."
Tim Tebow

by Digger24 on Feb 18, 2012 6:50 PM MST reply actions

they ARE building through the draft

by trading their picks.

by Lolly Tran on Feb 19, 2012 10:12 AM MST up reply actions

LMAO!

Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
My ship finally came in, but it was the Kobayashi Maru.
Follow @MHR_KaptainKirk
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by KaptainKirk on Feb 19, 2012 10:23 AM MST up reply actions

Nice mate. Always enjoy reading your stuff. Man, its boring in Broncos world at the moment.

Foxy...you WERE on the hot seat, but you fooled me you rascally old deveil...keep building that team mate!

Champ Bailey.

by boydy2669 on Feb 18, 2012 7:52 PM MST reply actions

Thanks....

Yeah….this time of the year is so boring. I’m dying.

by swg777 on Feb 19, 2012 8:36 AM MST up reply actions

Thanks swg...

I always like reading your opinions. And yes this is the time of year I am absolutely dying.
I really like your list of who you’d trade up for. Methinks it’s going to be a great offseason!

Better to be quiet and thought of as ignorant than to open your mouth and remove all doubt

by broncofaninIL on Feb 19, 2012 5:39 PM MST up reply actions

Great article swg

..when teams say they are going to “build through the draft.” This implies that other teams don’t take the draft as seriously as those who consciously decided to “build through the draft.” I have news for you, just because the Bears added a big free agent in Julius Peppers doesn’t mean they decided to ignore the draft. A team that decides to add big free agents doesn’t necessarily mean they will not emphasize the draft.

I always thought this was a dumb comment, unless it means “We don’t plan on our spending much money for proven free agents.” (a touchy subject for some here) or “We think we know more about drafting talent than most teams.”

GB 2

by Boiler etc on Feb 19, 2012 9:09 AM MST reply actions

Boller,

exactly. That is what I was trying to allude to. Nice

by swg777 on Feb 19, 2012 2:36 PM MST up reply actions

Great write up

If Dre Kirkpatrick falls to #16 we should try and trade up with the Jets before the Bengals can snag him at #17. I think he’d be the biggest bang for our buck in the first round other than Devon Still or Luke Kuechly.

TurfSharks.com

by ElwayFanJ on Feb 19, 2012 9:10 AM MST reply actions

+1

GB 2

by Boiler etc on Feb 19, 2012 9:13 AM MST up reply actions

Elwayfan...

Obviously I completely agree.

by swg777 on Feb 19, 2012 2:37 PM MST up reply actions

Good read

I like how you go out on a limb with some of these thoughts.

I’m not opposed to trading up necessarily, but this year it seems like a good DT or CB prospect will be there at 25. Trading up ten spots will cost us something like our 3rd and 4th. It would take a Richardson or Brockers type talent for me to want to trade 3 prospects for 1.

luckily im a bronco and a blazer fan

by chikndnnr on Feb 19, 2012 10:00 AM MST reply actions

Fair enough...

As I said, I think there are about six different players I think I would be willing to trade up for.

by swg777 on Feb 19, 2012 2:38 PM MST up reply actions

I liked most of this swg

enough to give it a rec.
I would trade up for probably any of those players. Kuechly would be worth the risk IMO. At least at this point in time. That is subject to change in the next few weeks, but if he is just a character issue (not sure, just posing a thought) then I think this locker room could handle it. One Romo or Ray Lewis goes a long way, especially at MLB.

by KaptainKirk on Feb 19, 2012 10:29 AM MST reply actions

Thanks...

Glad to see you are as high on Kuechly as I am. I understand what you are saying with “character issue” and I agree to a certain extent. It all depends on the type and intensity of the character issue.

by swg777 on Feb 19, 2012 2:40 PM MST up reply actions

Kuechly has character issues?

Von Miller once sacked three different quarterbacks, in three different games, in three different zip codes... in the exact same moment in time.

Welcome to the DoomerMill.

by aLuffabo on Feb 20, 2012 10:24 AM MST up reply actions

No

I think we sloppily combined two points into one statement.

by swg777 on Feb 20, 2012 10:29 AM MST up reply actions

much enjoyed swg

Your thoughts are almost always spot on.

"As iron sharpens iron, so will one man sharpen another." The Bible, by way of Tim Tebow.

by PaleHorse78 on Feb 19, 2012 2:05 PM MST reply actions

Thanks Pale.

by swg777 on Feb 19, 2012 2:41 PM MST up reply actions

When rebuilding a team like the Broncos I think all of the pools of finding players are important.

Just thinking that the draft is going to help will leave everyone involved sad and disappointed. Too much youth on a team is a dangerous approach and has helped to fail a few teams that tried it. There has to be a balance of the ages and talent to be successful and the draft works for development where the free agency fills a needed area with veteran leadership. The trade is another avenue that helps a team too, and that can work in many different ways.

One can only hope that drafting a player that he will immediately start, but that doesn’t always happen, and even some fail to ever see the field. EFX imo did a tremendous job last year of selecting prospects that started (Franklin and Miller), ones that had to start (Carter and Harris) and ones that have a great chance to develop because of existing veteran presence (Iving, Mohamed, Moore, Green and J Thomas). Beal is an unknown at this time. Who we pick up in free agency is on everybodies mind right now, with some dream searching going on with who we’ll select with our first pick…It’s good to dream sometimes, the when the whole picture comes into view, we’ll have a much brighter outlook of where the Broncos are headed for years…

"You hate to think you have to censor your language to meet other people's lack of understanding" -Julian Bond
Follow @bfree2bronc

by bfree2bronc on Feb 19, 2012 2:48 PM MST reply actions

Nice post Bill....

At key positions, we need vocal veteran leadership ( 1 x CB, LB, QB, along both lines) and this is then complemented by youth at back up positions and in positions like RB, WR, a CB and at safety.
When I look at our team, I don’t think we are THAT far off:
We have Champ at CB who brings great leadership. Dawk at safety (although I am worried that he might be done). AT linebacker I am on the fence: I think DJ is probably the better player, but WW brings better leadership, and Von is a once in a generation player who will blossom into a leader this year I think. I pray that Tebow develops more, because as a far as a leader there really is none better. We have Kuper on the O line (assuming he comes back from injury). I like Broderick, Doom….and yes….Robert Ayers on our D Line as far as leadership, but would like an upgrade somewhere.
Soooo, looking at this, here is what I would like to see us do:
*Get a CB in the draft.
*Get a solid safety in FA (Chris Harris)
*Get a RB in draft to compliment Willis.
*Get a SOLID O line player who bring in vet leadership (I would love Carl Nicks)
*Get a Veterean back up QB in FA (Garrard) and bring in a guy like Darron Thomas.
*Get a guy for D Line (Man, I would love Mario but don’t see that happening!)
*I would go after a guy like Reggie Wayne as a vet WR to help mentor our young guys.

This would then give us some great vet leadership across the board while letting our young guys develop under positive mentorship.

Foxy...you WERE on the hot seat, but you fooled me you rascally old deveil...keep building that team mate!

Champ Bailey.

by boydy2669 on Feb 20, 2012 8:23 AM MST up reply actions

Boydy

That sounds like a great offseason brother. Who do you like in the draft?

by swg777 on Feb 20, 2012 9:48 AM MST up reply actions

Man. it is so tough to work out mate...

I think we need to get thru combine to even hazard a guess!
Personally, I would be all over a CB as I think one of those guys will fall.
It will all depend on what the Broncos REALLy think about Irving.
Dre Kirkpatrick MAY drop but would not sell the farm on that theory.
I can see Hightower to be honest…..but man, I would love Kirkpatrick to be groomed by Champ!

Foxy...you WERE on the hot seat, but you fooled me you rascally old deveil...keep building that team mate!

Champ Bailey.

by boydy2669 on Feb 20, 2012 11:27 AM MST up reply actions

Mario would be epic. Here’s our four-man pass rush. Doom-Mario-Ayers-Von. QB’s would be pissing all over themselves.

And yes I know Mario would play D-end, but that cat is big enough to play inside.

Von Miller once sacked three different quarterbacks, in three different games, in three different zip codes... in the exact same moment in time.

Welcome to the DoomerMill.

by aLuffabo on Feb 20, 2012 10:27 AM MST up reply actions

Yeah Luff, and Ayers has frame to move to DT too...

And some blitz packages with Von at LB, and front 4 of Doom, Ayers, Bunkley and Williams…man oh man, who do you double team???

Foxy...you WERE on the hot seat, but you fooled me you rascally old deveil...keep building that team mate!

Champ Bailey.

by boydy2669 on Feb 20, 2012 11:29 AM MST up reply actions

Thanks swg

I like how you’re plugging the trade up idea. I’m on the fence on this. I like the idea of getting some more 2nd day picks by trading down but where have our plethora of round 2 picks got us lately? Getting Von this year showed us Bronco fans what a stud means to a team.

If the Broncos scouts see a stud in their trade up range, I damn well hope they pull the trigger. If they’ve got a some even scores on their player ratings on their board, i hope they stay put or even trade down. I guess it’s about having faith in your scouting department, your team plan and ultimately your board.

"Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space."

"It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes" Douglas Adams

by orange&blue_aussie on Feb 20, 2012 12:37 AM MST reply actions

Beginning to grasp the "moving up" and "moving back" for BPA...for the right selection and/or picks.

I’m going to take a stab here at both. Let’s say someone falls to say between the 15th and 20th pick that we rate “elite” potential we trade up to grab him, giving up some later picks. Or, the opposite, we think OUR guy will be available in the early part of the second round and we trade back, picking up an early second and keeping our other 2nd for whomever is considered BPA at this point. Is this anywhere near on target?

"Peace, a journey without distance to a place we have never left."

by BroncoCUbuffs on Feb 20, 2012 9:12 AM MST up reply actions

BCUB,

I see what you are saying and, in the end, I think that is all that any team should do.

by swg777 on Feb 20, 2012 9:46 AM MST up reply actions

Or further to that

If you still have 5 guys who you deem of roughly equal value when the draft is at 20… then there’s a good chance one of those guys will fall to you.

But if there’s one of those guys you have rated significantly higher, then you really need to consider the value of having that extra 3rd round pick over what your scouts deem the step-change in talent amongst those 5 guys.

I wish i had time to write more thoroughly but it’s so interesting. You’re weighing up team composition, team needs, scout’s opinions and how you think the rest of the draft will fall out. And by trying to quantify value, there’s some element of math and, well, art. For a guy with both maths and engineering degrees and an art diploma, I find it fascinating!

"Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space."

"It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes" Douglas Adams

by orange&blue_aussie on Feb 20, 2012 8:16 PM MST up reply actions

Very well said O.B_Aussie. (kinda has a Star Wars ring don't ya think) It is indeed facinating.

"Peace, a journey without distance to a place we have never left."

by BroncoCUbuffs on Feb 21, 2012 9:47 AM MST up reply actions

Haha totally...

Take it easy man…

"Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space."

"It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes" Douglas Adams

by orange&blue_aussie on Feb 21, 2012 8:10 PM MST up reply actions

OBA,

I agree with your sentiment completely.

by swg777 on Feb 20, 2012 9:45 AM MST up reply actions

Okay, now I'm starting to get with the flow of this stuff.

Once FA is out of the way I can go back into this web site and start laying out possibilities for trading up, down, adding picks, or whatever…here it is: http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/TSX/2012_RB

It includes all positions in the draft and rates players by round, or in many cases “tweener” rounds, which can clue us in to value.

Thanks for the replys swg.

"Peace, a journey without distance to a place we have never left."

by BroncoCUbuffs on Feb 20, 2012 12:40 PM MST up reply actions

This post is full of awesome

I approve. Rec’d

Follow @postpunk27

Whatcha gonna do, brother, when the Broncos run wild on you!

by postpunk27 on Feb 20, 2012 1:10 AM MST reply actions

Thanks buddy

by swg777 on Feb 20, 2012 9:44 AM MST up reply actions

I agree with most of what you have to say, but I disagree about the MLB position. 1st rnd picks as expected to start as rookies.

Foster started 14 games at MLB as a rookie 3rd round draft choice and the Bucs had the worst D in the NFL last year. Causation or correlation, you be the judge.
Lee (2nd rnd pick) didn’t start a single game as a rookie and had a grand total of 25 tackles playing for a poor Dallas D in 2010 (31st in pts allowed).
Laurinitis was the 35th pick, but the 2009 draft was stocked with LB talent (5 taken in the first round). Laurinitis started all 16 games as a rookie at MLB in 2009. The Rams D in 2009 was ranked 31st overall.
Spikes was a 2nd round pick who started 8 games in a 3-4 as a rookie for the Pats. He wasn’t playing Mike.
McClain was the #8 overall pick. He was expected to start.

I challenge you to find a rookie MLB drafted in after the first two rounds who started at MLB for an average or above average NFL defense. I went back about a decade and was unable to find one. I think there are two reasons
1. MLB is difficult to learn at the NFL level, I argue that it’s the most difficult defensive position to learn for a rookie
2. Most good 4-3 defenses ALREADY have a good starting MLB, so any rookie drafted is not going to be asked to start immediately and most teams are not going to use a first or second round pick on a position with a serviceable starter.

The correlary to all of this is that guys who are ready to start at MLB immediately as rookies, by definition are first round talent, i.e. Ray Lewis, Rolando McClain, Curtis Lofton (2nd rnd pick), Patrick Willis, Jon Beason (who was drafted NOT as an MLB).

Win the individual battles at the LOS - all else flows from that.

by DE_BroncoFan on Feb 20, 2012 7:34 AM MST reply actions 2 recs

Really nice post man. I have faith in JDR, Fox and the selection of Nate Irving....I think he will be good for us!

Foxy...you WERE on the hot seat, but you fooled me you rascally old deveil...keep building that team mate!

Champ Bailey.

by boydy2669 on Feb 20, 2012 8:25 AM MST up reply actions

DE...

it didn’t take me long, maybe 45 seconds, and I only had to go back to the 2011 draft. Akeem Ayers, Mason Foster, K.J. Wright. There are probably more, but I thought that was sufficient for now.

by swg777 on Feb 20, 2012 8:55 AM MST up reply actions

If you say

that Akeem Ayers played several different LB positions, that is fine. I will just point out another rookie, Colin McCarthy, who also played MLB.

by swg777 on Feb 20, 2012 9:06 AM MST up reply actions

McCarthy is good example, but he only started because Ruud was lost for the season after 9 games.

That being said he did step up and play well (68 tackles, 3 PD, 1 Int in 7 starts), but the coaching staff obviously was planning on bringing him along slowly since he was a gameday inactive for the three weeks prior to him being forced into the starting role.

Win the individual battles at the LOS - all else flows from that.

by DE_BroncoFan on Feb 20, 2012 9:26 AM MST up reply actions

Ayers is an OLB. Foster did not play for an average D. Wright doesn't play Mike.

Win the individual battles at the LOS - all else flows from that.

by DE_BroncoFan on Feb 20, 2012 9:18 AM MST up reply actions

sorry - wright does play Mike and has played ok since being forced into the starting role with Hawthorne's injury

61 tackles in 13 starts at MLB is fairly low production, but Seattle relies heavily on their front 4 for tackles.

Win the individual battles at the LOS - all else flows from that.

by DE_BroncoFan on Feb 20, 2012 9:32 AM MST up reply actions

Sean Lee is just another example.

He would have been an immediate starter in 2010 if it wasn’t for nagging injuries. Obviously, in 2011, he was a stud.

by swg777 on Feb 20, 2012 9:41 AM MST up reply actions

Lee was a 2nd round pick

Win the individual battles at the LOS - all else flows from that.

by DE_BroncoFan on Feb 20, 2012 10:31 AM MST up reply actions

By the way...

Why are u having to qualify your requirement so much? My point was merely rookie lb’s who start and/or play large chunks. Why does it have to be later than second round for a better than average team? Split hairs much? (:

by swg777 on Feb 20, 2012 10:41 AM MST up reply actions

My qualification stems from one conjecture and one fact

1. Playing the Mike in a 4-3 is more difficult than playing Sam or Will (conjecture). I never played LB above the JV level, so I can only go on what others have said about the Mike in a 4-3 (I played OL/DL in HS and OL in college).
2. First and second round picks at any position are much more likely to start than 3rd or later round picks (fact)

What is boils down to is that I have decided to take the optimistic view of the the situation with Irving not playing as a rookie. You have chosen to take the pessimistic view. Both of us are going to have to wait a long time to determine who is more correct.

Win the individual battles at the LOS - all else flows from that.

by DE_BroncoFan on Feb 20, 2012 10:52 AM MST up reply actions

Fair enough my friend. For the record, i hope u are right!

by swg777 on Feb 20, 2012 10:57 AM MST up reply actions

Part of the Lin phenomena is attributed to his race and rightfully so

An Asian basketball player has not experienced success in the NBA to the degree Lin has…a similar phenomena occurred when Tiger Woods came onto the golf scene where previously no black golfer had experienced a high level of success. So when an athlete succeeds in a sport that is typically dominated by a certain race, the media and fans alike jump on the hype train no matter what race it is.

by knoepke84 on Feb 20, 2012 9:06 AM MST via mobile reply actions

Call me crazy

But race is totally irrelevant. I just don’t get what it has to do with anything anymore. I could care less that a particular sport is ‘dominated’ by a given race.

Another reason I think the NAACP should be abolished as well. Just replace it with PAACP (the first “P” standing for People… or HAACP – Human). We’re all the same species. I’d just like if that’s how the majority of people view it. That’s all. Nothing personal.

A pessimist sees the difficulties in every opportunity.
An optimist sees the opportunities in every difficulty.
- Winston Churchill

First (and only, in our lifetimes) team to three consecutive SB wins (perhaps and then some)!!!! ( =

by PearlJamBroncoGFunk on Feb 20, 2012 9:22 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs

PJBGF,

trust me, I share your sentiment. I’m a prisoner of the world I live in and I am just commenting on the world as it is, not as it should be.

by swg777 on Feb 20, 2012 9:43 AM MST up reply actions 2 recs

Yes and it's easy for me to forget

That someone may be remarking about it, in that light… As it is, not necessarily as it should be. I try not to take any of that personal. I try. ( ;

A pessimist sees the difficulties in every opportunity.
An optimist sees the opportunities in every difficulty.
- Winston Churchill

First (and only, in our lifetimes) team to three consecutive SB wins (perhaps and then some)!!!! ( =

by PearlJamBroncoGFunk on Feb 20, 2012 11:13 AM MST up reply actions

Not to mention

We should celebrate our differences. I don’t understand why we all have to be the same. I am not starting a debate, just giving a view point. Saying a person is different or fits into a category “should” not be a bad thing. In many ways we are all human and all the same, easy to see if you travel at all. Then again, we are all different and can bring different talents and skills to any given situation.
How many Asian players have the height to play Bball, let alone the talent. Didn’t Yao Ming cause the same kind of press? I know he had a commercial or two on TV.

Go Broncos!
2011 AFC West Champions

by Sean in Pa. on Feb 20, 2012 11:17 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs

Nice to hear from you Sean! Things looking up mate?

Foxy...you WERE on the hot seat, but you fooled me you rascally old deveil...keep building that team mate!

Champ Bailey.

by boydy2669 on Feb 20, 2012 11:31 AM MST up reply actions

Great read.

Lots of interesting ideas.

Regarding your question about whether MLB is the toughest position to learn as a rookie, I presume you were discussing this within the context of the defense. If that’s the case, I think it’s safety. Like you, I can’t back it up with any data (this guy might have the data). But it just seems like there are so few remarkable safeties in the league. And the teams that make it deep into the playoffs typically have really good safeties (this season was an exception). If it truly is a passing league, then the matchup is QB vs. Safety; rather than QB vs. MLB. I kind of strayed from the topic – but anyway…

I totally agree with your attitude about trading up. And although I don’t know that the Combine matters as much as you do, I sure enjoy watching it. It’s mindless entertainment. I find “the gauntlet” drill – in which receivers sprint across the field while people throw balls at them from different directions – particularly fun to watch. I don’t understand how this provides any insight into a player’s capabilities. The scouts should already know whether or not the receiver can catch long before they hit the turf in Indy.

Finally, your questions about the Combine sparked an idea: It’d be fun if someone (anyone but me) created a post of “prop bets” on the Combine. Maybe 5-10 questions that can be objectively answered at the Combine’s conclusion. Questions like “Which receiver posted the fastest Combine time?” “Will anyone break Stephen Paea’s benchmark record?” “How many cornerbacks will run sub-4.4 forties? Over/under 2.5?”

Obviously, subjective questions such as “Which running back’s hips were the most fluid?” couldn’t be posed.

Then, someone could compile the answers and whoever got the most correct would win the community’s adoration! I think that stuff’s fun; but I learned long ago that I’m not normal.

There's no way Khloe's a Kardashian. No frickin' way.

by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Feb 20, 2012 10:23 AM MST reply actions

Excellent points...

Safety is an excellent choice. Rookie safeties hardly start, and when they do, they hardly make an impact.

by swg777 on Feb 23, 2012 2:46 PM MST up reply actions

Nice work SWG

I’m really hoping we bolster our D through the draft, find some nice depth at O-line, RB, & WR through FA.

I’m not sure Tebow will ever be able to win shoot outs in this league so I really hope we can build a perennial top 5 Defense.

"Vegetarians are cool. All I eat are vegetarians - except for the occasional mountain lion steak "

Ted Nugent

by Idaho Nate on Feb 20, 2012 11:04 AM MST reply actions

Thanks Nate....

by swg777 on Feb 23, 2012 2:46 PM MST up reply actions

Great stuff

I especially liked the ‘building through the draft’ stuff. Whole heartedly agree. Every team in the NFL looks to build through the draft. There is nothing unique or novel about the idea. Those teams that draft well end up being successful in building through the draft. Duh? Those teams that draft poorly end up being far less successful in building through the draft. Duh? When a fan says EFX want to build through the draft as a rebuttal to someone else coveting some free agent somewhere, well he may as well have just said the sky is blue because both statements have just about the same relevancy on the issue.

Moving on, I wouldn’t necessarily take up the debate here and now as to whether MLB is tougher or less tough than the other positions you named, in terms of learning curve. What I will say, however, is that with no offseason, new DC, new scheme on that side of the ball and a new HC, it would have been a small miracle for Nate Irving to be a starter. In hind sight, it would have been surprising if Fox ever really gave him a chance to start. As a HC walking into that situation and the amazingly limited time crunch to change to a 4-3 with new faces, new location, new DC, etc… would you really even entrtain the idea of having a rookie starter at SLB AND MLB? I wouldn’t.

By drafting the same position to fill the same need in back-to-back years, you lose the ability to gain two starters with two picks. And that's the goal of every draft.
It's time to give Nate Irving and Julius Thomas their first offseason... not draft their replacement.

by Rodney A on Feb 20, 2012 11:43 AM MST reply actions 1 recs

Great points Rod. When looked at from that POV it makes a ton of sense and would lead me to believe that Mays is stop gap until Irving ready this year!

Foxy...you WERE on the hot seat, but you fooled me you rascally old deveil...keep building that team mate!

Champ Bailey.

by boydy2669 on Feb 20, 2012 11:46 AM MST up reply actions

Rodney,

Sorry for the delay, I have been busy at work. As usual, you make some very good points and I don’t necessarily disagree with them. Don’t get me wrong, I am completely hoping that Irving and Thomas work out. One thing I have learned is that I always underestimate the ability of teams to adjust to something new (or introduce new personnel) in the middle of the season. It seems like 99% of the in-season practice session involves game-planning for the next opponent and getting your body ready to play. I completely hope you are right, I am just doubtful.

by swg777 on Feb 23, 2012 2:45 PM MST up reply actions