Oh, the Irony!
In many ways, the work of a critic is easy. We risk very little yet enjoy a position over those who offer up their work and their selves to our judgment. We thrive on negative criticism, which is fun to write and to read. But the bitter truth we critics must face, is that in the grand scheme of things, the average piece of junk is probably more meaningful than our criticism designating it so.
- Anton Ego in Ratatouille
Given my willingness to provide "feedback" on the mocks that so many MHR'ers have courageously submitted to the community's scrutiny, it's only fair that I give those risk takers a chance at payback.
But before you get your chance at vengeance, I'd like to provide a little context.
Although my job sometimes puts me in the field, which allows me to not only carry a gun but regularly shoot it, I'm a quant at heart. I like being in the field, but I love data extraction and analysis. I love the intelligence side of the game.
This passion necessitated that I take a quant's approach to solving the problem that is the NFL Draft. First, this meant assessing the available resources, which led me to web-based Draftek, a mock draft simulator that allows users to tweak certain inputs and then it spits out a draft. The trouble is, I found Draftek's user interface cumbersome. And it bothered me that I couldn't input my own Big Board.
At that point, I knew I was going to have to build my own simulator.
I'm happy to report that I finished it last night at a quarter past midnight. I like it because I can input my own Big Board and give each team different offseason priorities. If I don't like the output, I can tweak a team need here and a player evaluation there until I get the result I want.
About my Big Board, given that there are over 800 players vying for about 240 spots and that I have a full-time job, I have neither the time, nor the expertise to personally evaluate all 800+ players. As such, I've had to rely on the various Big Boards that can be found across the Internet. Sure, I've carved out time to evaluate some players. But it's nowhere near 800.
Even so, my Big Board significantly differs from the typical draftnik's. For example, I have Lamar Miller rated much higher than most people do. And I have the receivers in the class rated much lower than most people do. In some cases, like in the case of Stanford guard David DeCastro, since I don't feel qualified to evaluate guards, I deferred to the opinion of the "self-described" experts - but only because I don't know any better.
As for team needs, I visited the various SB Nation sites for each team and tried to glean what each fan base was complaining about the most. Some sites made it easy for me by providing polls. So my confidence is high that my team need assessment is pretty accurate.
Lastly, the simulator works by considering each player's grade against each team's needs with a measure of position supply and demand thrown in. For example, if a highly-rated player falls to a team at a position that isn't needed; but the player's rating is higher than highest-rated player at a position of need, then the higher-ranked player is selected. However, the simulator weighs needs more heavily as the draft progresses. If figured this was probably accurate: Early on, teams want the best player available. But as players are selected teams become more desperate to address needs.
So I finally got the thing running and I was happy with my Big Board and my needs. The trouble was, that no matter how I tweaked it, Cincinnati kept drafting Lamar Miller at #21. Obviously, this was unacceptable to me. And then I found the answer: A thread on Cincy Jungle that debated what Cincy's primary offseason needs were. This thread argued that guard was primary and cornerback was secondary. Running back was the Bengal's tertiary need! That gave me the clear conscience I needed to re-jigger the Bengals' needs and...voila!...Lamar Miller to the Denver Broncos at #25!
The irony is that tweak also gave us Vontaze Burfict in the fourth round. Oh well...
Since I just ran this simulation last night, I haven't accounted for trades or free agency. I'll make a few comments. I think we need to address free safety via free agency. Many people, myself included, hope that Dwight Lowery from Jacksonville comes to us. After looking at team needs across the league, I worry this might not happen. One of the teams in dire need of a free safety is New England. I fear he'll choose New England over us. Also, league-wide, free safety is the seventh-highest priority this offseason. In other words, there's above average demand.
Regarding trades, I haven't really looked at these yet. I anticipate there being some movement at the top of the draft. I need to think about this more.
Anyway, if you're still here...
| Rd. | Pick | Team | Player | Pos. | College | Notes |
| 1 | 25 | DEN | Lamar Miller | RB | Miami (Fla.) | No surprise. |
| 2 | 57 | DEN | Kendall Reyes | DT | Connecticut | A penetrating, pocket-collapsing UT. |
| 3 | 88 | DEN | Trumaine Johnson | CB | Montana | This is who the simulator spit out. No opinion. |
| 4 | 120 | DEN | Vontaze Burfict | ILB | Arizona State | I hate this pick, but it's who the simulator spit out. |
| 5 | 129 | DEN | Brandon Taylor | SS | LSU | I don't know anything about him. |
| 5 | 152 | DEN | Ryan Lindley | QB | San Diego State | I'm not excited about him at all. |
| 7 | 216 | DEN | Donte Paige-Moss | DE | North Carolina | Who? |
For additional consideration, here's the entire 1st round:
| Rd. | Pick | Team | Player | Pos. | College |
| 1 | 1 | IND | Andrew Luck | QB | Stanford |
| 1 | 2 | STL | Matt Kalil | OT | Southern California |
| 1 | 3 | MIN | Morris Claiborne | CB | LSU |
| 1 | 4 | CLE | Riley Reiff | OT | Iowa |
| 1 | 5 | TBB | Trent Richardson | RB | Alabama |
| 1 | 6 | WAS | Robert Griffin III | QB | Baylor |
| 1 | 7 | JAX | Quinton Coples | DE | North Carolina |
| 1 | 8 | CAR | Zach Brown | OLB | North Carolina |
| 1 | 9 | MIA | Jonathan Martin | OT | Stanford |
| 1 | 10 | BUF | Nick Perry | DE | Southern California |
| 1 | 11 | KCC | Mike Adams | OT | Ohio State |
| 1 | 12 | SEA | Ryan Tannehill | QB | Texas A&M |
| 1 | 13 | ARI | David DeCastro | OG | Stanford |
| 1 | 14 | DAL | Peter Konz | C | Wisconsin |
| 1 | 15 | PHI | Courtney Upshaw | OLB | Alabama |
| 1 | 16 | NYJ | Cordy Glenn | OG | Georgia |
| 1 | 17 | CIN | Janoris Jenkins | CB | North Alabama |
| 1 | 18 | SDC | Melvin Ingram | OLB | South Carolina |
| 1 | 19 | CHI | Zebrie Sanders | OT | Florida State |
| 1 | 20 | TEN | Andre Branch | DE | Clemson |
| 1 | 21 | CIN | Brandon Washington | OG | Miami (Fla.) |
| 1 | 22 | CLE | Michael Floyd | WR | Notre Dame |
| 1 | 23 | DET | Dre Kirkpatrick | CB | Alabama |
| 1 | 24 | PIT | Michael Brockers | DT | LSU |
| 1 | 25 | DEN | Lamar Miller | RB | Miami (Fla.) |
| 1 | 26 | HOU | Justin Blackmon | WR | Oklahoma State |
| 1 | 27 | NEP | Vinny Curry | DE | Marshall |
| 1 | 28 | GBP | Jared Crick | DE | Nebraska |
| 1 | 29 | BAL | Kendall Wright | WR | Baylor |
| 1 | 30 | SFN | Stephon Gilmore | CB | South Carolina |
| 1 | 31 | NEP | Mark Barron | SS | Alabama |
| 1 | 32 | NYG | Bobby Wagner | OLB | Utah State |
One thing to note: A limitation of my simulator is that it doesn't distinguish between DTs and NTs. I really don't believe the Steelers would take Michael Brockers to play nose tackle. In this case, they'd probably take Poe or Ta'amu.
Anyway, thank for reading. If you have any questions or complaints, I'll periodically check in the comments to see if I can address them.
This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR
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Paige-Moss would be a absolute steal in round 7.
If we got Burfict in the 4th the Broncos should go to prison for robbery.
Would’ve liked to see a Badger in there somewhere. (Konz, Zeitler, Wilson)
I don't know anything about Paige-Moss.
But I’m glad the Burfict picks makes you happy.
It's like you're dreamin' about gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly brie time, baby!.
by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Feb 23, 2012 2:06 PM MST up reply actions
No doubt Juice!
Before this whole process started, Donte Paige-Moss was considered a 1st round prospect. I’m not sure why he fell though??? He is one of many North Carolina Tarheels, under Butch Davis, that have great talent and NFL potential.
"If you went to the Fair with this guy and you played that game where you have to throw the ball through the hole..... he may never get it through the hole, but he's still gonna be walking away with all the stuffed animals!" Prime's commentary on our very own Tim Tebow!!!
"As iron sharpens iron, so will one man sharpen another." The Bible, by way of Tim Tebow.
"If I had to choose between an abundance of football intelligence, or football wisdom, I'd choose wisdom every single time...... John Fox has enough football wisdom to be carried in a dump truck." Me!
Found this on Moss
I had just seen something about him on Mocking the Draft so I googled him. Had some arrests and suspensions for fighting, tore his ACL in December. http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=89454&draftyear=2013&genpos=DE
I love Lamar Miller as a prospect.
I think he has a Clinton Portis kind of game, but I still would not like it if we drafted him at 25 and I don’t think he gets drafted at all in the 1st round. I think you are really overvaluing Miller and running backs in general. Teams are wising up to the fact that having one feature back isn’t how the RB position is handled anymore. Mark Ingram, the Heisman winning running back only went 28th last year and it makes sense. Why use a first round pick on someone that will only be splitting carries? Running back is no longer a vital position and I don’t see a running back going in the first once Richardson is gone. I think both Miller and David Wilson (generally seen as the 3rd best back in the draft) both go in the second round and I think there is a chance that one of them (most likely Wilson) falls to us at 57. Or another way of getting one of those guys is to trade out of the 1st and get an early/middle of the pack pick in the second and take Miller there because I really believe that they will still be available.
Like the rest of the draft and I like the model you built, but I hope we don’t use our first round pick on a RB.
Wooooot! one of my teams made the postseason and won! PLAYOFFS!!!1
Denver Broncos: 2011 AFC WEST Champs!
Come on Toronto teams, one of you make the goddamn playoffs.
Thanks for your thoughts.
Obviously, we disagree.
I think there are several potential reasons for our disagreement. But the primary source orients around Miller. To me, there’s not a wide gap between Miller and Richardson. For you, there must be.
On my Big Board, I have Trent Richardson at 6 and Lamar Miller at 10. And then Doug Martin at 37. So it follows, that if Trent Richardson is the greatest running back prospect to hit the draft since AP, then Lamar Miller’s in that conversation. At least, according to me.
I realize this view differs from the mainstream and I’m okay with that. I think I’ll be proven right in the end. Back when Knowshon Moreno came out, I was largely on my own when I said he couldn’t play. People said I didn’t know what I was talking about. Some of the arguments grew heated. Even the venerable Jeremy Bolander, who you might not know but he’s an institution around here, said that I was wrong and that Knowshon would be “special.” I’m not slamming Jeremy. My point is the common view on Knowshon was dead wrong. And the rare view (mine) was right.
Another possible reason for our disagreement concerns your belief that the move toward running-backs-by-committee stems from a change in philosophy rather than it arising as consequence of a prolonged talent vacuum. Just as entire drafts come and go without an elite franchise quarterback being available, entire drafts can come and go without an elite franchise running back being available. This draft happens to have two elite franchise quarterbacks and it also happens to have two elite franchise running backs.
Mark Ingram was a reach at 28. He’s not elite now and he wasn’t last February. Beanie Wells wasn’t elite. Knowshon Moreno wasn’t elite. Chris Johnson is elite. And they don’t run RBBC in Tennessee.
I’m convinced of Lamar Miller’s talent. It’s elite. Barring some serious injury, he’s going to be special. A few years from now, we’ll talk about Lamar Miller in the same sentence with AP and Chris Johnson.
It's like you're dreamin' about gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly brie time, baby!.
by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Feb 23, 2012 2:27 PM MST up reply actions
yeah I just don't like him as much as you do.
And that’s surprising because I really really like him but I just don’t think he’s a top 10 prospect.
Wooooot! one of my teams made the postseason and won! PLAYOFFS!!!1
Denver Broncos: 2011 AFC WEST Champs!
Come on Toronto teams, one of you make the goddamn playoffs.
I saw him comment in a thread a couple weeks ago.
That guy’s smart. I miss him. He knows his stuff about the draft too.
It's like you're dreamin' about gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly brie time, baby!.
by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Feb 23, 2012 6:50 PM MST up reply actions
Yeah last year he was all about the draft
He hasn’t written anything for the front page in a LONG time. I also noticed he’s no longer listed in the management section. That’s a real bummer if he’s moved on.
Bel15ve
Yeah, he's an interesting guy.
He had varied interests. He’d talk about the draft one minute and then logic the next.
Really bright.
It's like you're dreamin' about gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly brie time, baby!.
by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Feb 23, 2012 8:51 PM MST up reply actions
Not a master.
Remember, Burfict ended up with us.
It's like you're dreamin' about gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly brie time, baby!.
by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Feb 23, 2012 2:35 PM MST up reply actions
I'd like to have a defensive player with #25 but overall it is a good draft.
Tim Tebow wears 3WM and drinks Tuscan whole milk.
Just to give you some closure around...
…what might have been.
Fletcher Cox went 34th to Indy. But if Pitt had selected Poe (again, a limitation of my simulator), then that would have meant Brockers probably would have fell to Indy. And then Fletcher Cox probably would have gone to Carolina at 40.
It's like you're dreamin' about gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly brie time, baby!.
by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Feb 23, 2012 2:47 PM MST up reply actions
Yeah, I still would have preferred Poe or Crick or Cox or any one of those guys.
Tim Tebow wears 3WM and drinks Tuscan whole milk.
by BroncoMath101 on Feb 23, 2012 4:25 PM MST up reply actions
Can you guys believe the Colts are going for a tough, 3-4 defense?
I’d say it’s going to be rough going for 3 or 4 years, cause that whole defense is infested with injury prone, plug-n-play, cover 2 players. There’s not one thing tough about the Colts 4-3 D of old (except that one year in the playoffs when Booger MacFarland and Bob Sanders got healthy).
"If you went to the Fair with this guy and you played that game where you have to throw the ball through the hole..... he may never get it through the hole, but he's still gonna be walking away with all the stuffed animals!" Prime's commentary on our very own Tim Tebow!!!
"As iron sharpens iron, so will one man sharpen another." The Bible, by way of Tim Tebow.
"If I had to choose between an abundance of football intelligence, or football wisdom, I'd choose wisdom every single time...... John Fox has enough football wisdom to be carried in a dump truck." Me!
I wasn't aware of that change.
Interesting. You’re right: They don’t have the personnel for that scheme at all.
It's like you're dreamin' about gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly brie time, baby!.
by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Feb 23, 2012 6:56 PM MST up reply actions
That also makes Fletcher Cox an unlikely pick for them
"You’re only great if you win something. I mean, Alexander wasn’t Alexander the Mediocre or Alexander the Average. He was Alexander the Great, and there’s a reason for it."-Shannon Sharpe
Not necessarily.
I’ve seen several reports suggesting Cox could play the 5.
It's like you're dreamin' about gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly brie time, baby!.
by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Feb 25, 2012 11:30 AM MST up reply actions
He's a talented DT for sure
He probably could play the 5, but that wouldn’t be an ideal fit because of his size. He would have a more imediate impact playing the 3 IMO.
"You’re only great if you win something. I mean, Alexander wasn’t Alexander the Mediocre or Alexander the Average. He was Alexander the Great, and there’s a reason for it."-Shannon Sharpe
Michael Brockers
If he makes it to 23 or 24, should Denver trade up knowing he would never get past Pitt? How does Justin Blackmon slide to 26? Based on what he did to Stanford, I would draft Blackmon in a heartbeat.
I think Brockers would slide past Pitt.
As I said, my simulator doesn’t differentiate between DTs and NTs; so I think Pittsburgh drafts Dontari Poe there. I just have Brockers rated higher than Poe, which is why he showed up there.
That said, since my Big Board has Miller at 10 and Brockers at 15, I think we should take Miller.
I’ve got Kendall Reyes at 30.
I have Blackmon ranked much lower than most. I have Michael Floyd, Blackmon and Kendall Wright at 17, 18 and 19 on my board. I don’t believe there’s an elite receiver in this draft. To me, the top 6 receivers will all be good and long-term contributors. But there’s not an A.J. Green or Julio Jones available in this draft.
It's like you're dreamin' about gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly brie time, baby!.
by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Feb 23, 2012 2:33 PM MST up reply actions
Well, that was my goal...
…to write something you’d utterly despise. When I wrote it, I was hoping you’d vomit in your mouth. Did I succeed?
It's like you're dreamin' about gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly brie time, baby!.
by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Feb 23, 2012 3:04 PM MST up reply actions
laugh
well, a job worth doin’…
"I tell you, we are here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different."
— Kurt Vonnegut
Interesting
I don’t follow college players at all, but I did see some footage on the top few running backs, and Lamar Miller just jumped off the page to me. It freaked me out that he was considered a second-tier talent in the article I read.
I do still think you’re wrong on Moreno, but I think he’s just misused. He should be a pass-catching, pass-blocking, outlet-receiving, screen-receiving back.
I'm with you.
To me, Miller’s looked like the best player on the field in every game I’ve seen him play.
It's like you're dreamin' about gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly brie time, baby!.
by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Feb 23, 2012 3:20 PM MST up reply actions
True, Moreno has been very good in that role.
But part of being a RB in the NFL is being durable. Moreno is not durable. You can’t tie up a roster spot and salary on a player who gets hurt every year. This is why Ryan Harris was cut last year. We brought him back at a reduced salary to see if he can stay healthy and contribute. This is why McBath got released. He had talent, but he got hurt every year. This is why the Colts got rid of Bob Sanders. San Diego picked him up and he got hurt again. Some guys are just injury prone. You can’t just blindly hope they are going to somehow overcome their track record.
The same is true in reverse. Some guys just don’t get hurt. London Fletcher has played almost every snap of his NFL career, at MLB no less, without ever getting hurt.
I don’t think Moreno will be on this team unless he restructures his deal.
Oh, you were finished? Oh, well, allow me to retort!
--Jules Winnfield
I've been told he's pretty cheap now.
But that said, I’m done with him.
I don’t have any patience for overdrafted glass jaws who trip over painted yard-line stripes.
The truth is, I was done with him the moment we drafted him. So I’m hardly objective on it.
It's like you're dreamin' about gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly brie time, baby!.
by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Feb 23, 2012 5:01 PM MST up reply actions
Ryan Lindley in one of the major reasons SDSU's football program has been decent the last 2 years.
Average Raider Fan's IQ = 89
Bill Williamson's IQ = 75
Find yours by clicking here.
Maybe I've got a bad read on him.
Would you like to see him play for the Broncos?
It's like you're dreamin' about gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly brie time, baby!.
by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Feb 23, 2012 3:22 PM MST up reply actions
I don't want to see anyone but Timmy playing QB for us.
But as a back-up developemental practice squad QB, hell yeah.
Average Raider Fan's IQ = 89
Bill Williamson's IQ = 75
Find yours by clicking here.
That's what I meant. Lindley as a backup.
That’s good to hear. I hadn’t heard many positive things about him.
It's like you're dreamin' about gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly brie time, baby!.
by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Feb 23, 2012 3:28 PM MST up reply actions
Agreed
That’s a big old athletic hoss-cat to groom. 6-4ish… 235 lb. QB with an absolute arm cannon.
"If you went to the Fair with this guy and you played that game where you have to throw the ball through the hole..... he may never get it through the hole, but he's still gonna be walking away with all the stuffed animals!" Prime's commentary on our very own Tim Tebow!!!
"As iron sharpens iron, so will one man sharpen another." The Bible, by way of Tim Tebow.
"If I had to choose between an abundance of football intelligence, or football wisdom, I'd choose wisdom every single time...... John Fox has enough football wisdom to be carried in a dump truck." Me!
I'm still hoping that Miller is still on the board at 25 but we trade back and pick him up early in the 2nd.
However, after viewing video of Lamar I can away with the same feeling “elite”.
"Peace, a journey without distance to a place we have never left."
There are three teams ahead of us who need RBs.
Tampa, the Jets and Cincinnati. As I said in the post, before I subordinated Cincy’s RB need, they kept drafting Lamar Miller.
I think you could also make an argument that the Steelers could use a runningback. But over on BTSC, they seem to think the highest priorities are guard and noseguard. They also need to potentially replace Mike Wallace.
If the actual personnel departments view Miller as I do, we might need to trade up to get him. I think Chicago might be a team who might be in the market to trade down.
It's like you're dreamin' about gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly brie time, baby!.
by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Feb 23, 2012 4:18 PM MST up reply actions
That would be ideal CUBuffs.
That way, we can target the best available defender with pick 25. My bet is on a pass rusher… edge or interior.
"If you went to the Fair with this guy and you played that game where you have to throw the ball through the hole..... he may never get it through the hole, but he's still gonna be walking away with all the stuffed animals!" Prime's commentary on our very own Tim Tebow!!!
"As iron sharpens iron, so will one man sharpen another." The Bible, by way of Tim Tebow.
"If I had to choose between an abundance of football intelligence, or football wisdom, I'd choose wisdom every single time...... John Fox has enough football wisdom to be carried in a dump truck." Me!
In the best of worlds we get Miller and a pocket collapsing DT in the 2nd round.
In terms of immediate impact these two would fit the bill. I see a pocket collapsing DT as THE key to our D this year. It would open up our D ends giving Miller an even more free rein to rush. This kind of rush would make our defensive backs look a hell of a lot better, whether they are or not. I mean, it just opens up the defense for virtually position to have pressure coming from four our five positions leaving now where to go and forcing quick throws.
If our offense can open up the tight ends for short to mid range passes then a one-two punch of McGahee and Miller would be hard to stop, particularly with Tebow’s ever present run threat. However it pans out we are in for a very interesting year..
"Peace, a journey without distance to a place we have never left."
by BroncoCUbuffs on Feb 24, 2012 8:45 AM MST up reply actions
Kudos on the draft engine!
I thought “agent” as in SPORTS agent. Guns are cool. Too bad I was a dumb kid and have to get things adjudicated to own one. :) Now on to the meat and bones of your post:
I think if we get Burfict in the fourth, it would be a steal, and I would be OK with it, but no earlier than that. I’m actually good with the Miller pick in the first because I think the DT need does get addressed relatively well with Reyes.
I don’t know if Johnson makes it to the third but he’s been on my radar for some time now. Norman might be available there, too, if Johnson climbs rapidly.
Overall, really a great draft! I’d be very happy with everyone on that draft board. I’d be interested in learning more about what went into building your simulator? I’m a numbers guy myself, and that stuff really piques my interest. :)
What are your thoughts on FAs?
Thanks!
It took me quite a while to build it. I kept having issues with iterative calculations. The team needs change based on who the team’s already drafted and then there’s a need amplifier that changes changed based on scarcity at certain positions. It complicated things, but ultimately I figured out a way to do it.
It was fun to build. I kept enhancing it as I came up with more ideas. Early on, it was too need based. It would spit out drafts with Denver drafting four quarterbacks. So it took me a while to balance needs and BPA.
I’m not high on Burfict at all. But I guess I’d be willing to take a flyer on him in the fourth. After all, Shanahan was willing to take a flyer on Clarett earlier than that. I like Reyes alot. I was surprised when he fell to us.
I don’t know much about Johnson. I seem to remember reading he was a big, physical guy. Maybe he could be the Gronk-killer.
Regarding FA, I think others have a better understanding of the available FAs than I do. In terms of the positions, I believe we need to address FS in FA, because it’s so rare for a rookie to come in and thrive. And we need immediate help there. One of the things that disturbed me about my team need assessment was how many teams will be competing for many of the same FAs that we covet. This is especially so with free safeties. And almost every SB site’s fans say they want Brandon Carr.
I was also surprised to learn how many veteran C’s are expected to be released from their teams. I don’t know if they’ll just resign at a lower rate or what. But I wouldn’t mind it if we brought in a center to compete with Walton.
I was surprised the simulator spit out an SS. I’m hoping Quentin Carter emerges, so I ranked that as a low priority for us – I’m hoping we’ll draft some OL depth.
It's like you're dreamin' about gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly brie time, baby!.
by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Feb 23, 2012 4:43 PM MST up reply actions
I think Johnson could easily be the Gronkryptonite.
Wow – Gronkryptonite, according to Internet Explorer, is not a misspelling.
As far as SS, check out the Hopes and Dreams post I created. There’s a late round SS there that I’m really intrigued by.
I think the greatest part about this draft is that there are guys available that fit the mold in the POSITION you draft them in outside of the ones you picked. i.e. 2nd round DTs, there will probably be one or two. 3rd round CBs, same thing.
Well done. :)
Well thanks again.
It required quite a bit of work, but I’m really happy with the results. Knowing me, I’ll keep tweaking it. I’m kind of like George Lucas that way (but much stupider). People who know George Lucas say Star Wars will never be finished until he dies.
I saw that Janzen kid in your post and then the next day I saw a long write up about him. How he’s changed his ways. I believe him. I think he could be really good.
It's like you're dreamin' about gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly brie time, baby!.
by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Feb 23, 2012 5:17 PM MST up reply actions
I think the talent level added to the team from this mock is very good. The only issue I can really see with this is the two character concerns related to Burfict and Paige-Moss, but both those guys have very high potential and are taken in rounds that would make them value picks. Very good mock!
"If we cannot find a way, we will make one." -Hannibal
by AvalancheRescueDog on Feb 23, 2012 4:21 PM MST reply actions
I'm glad you liked it.
I wish I could take credit for the picks beyond Miller. The rest is actually quite plausible based on my BB and the team needs.
One caveat: I don’t rate Burfict very highly at all (in fact, I have Kuechly, Hightower and Burfict rated lower than most draftniks). If I’m off the mark in my evaluation, then it’s likely Burfict will go earlier than the fourth.
It’s kind of funny: Over on BTSC – the Steeler’s SB fan site – the crowd there wants to cut ties with one of their starting guards who apparently committed a lot of impulse control penalties (I think the guy’s name was Kemoatou). But then many of those same people want the Steelers to select Burfict.
I don’t know anything about Paige-Moss, but a few commenters seem excited about his potential. Since he was a 7th rounder that sounds okay to me.
It's like you're dreamin' about gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly brie time, baby!.
by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Feb 23, 2012 4:59 PM MST up reply actions
I think Burfict will be rated pretty high by some teams like the Steelers. They don’t seem to mind having players that are character concerns (like Harrison) and are in need of a new ILB. They also put more of a premium on LB’s more than most teams, so if Burfict is on the board when they pick in the 2nd, they very well could take him.
Paige-Moss is a similar prospect to Burfict. Both were considered 1st round talents before their junior year, questionable character, and highly talented football players. Both of them IMO are better off being selected in the mid to late rounds as in this mock, because they are low risk, high reward players.
IMO I think Kuechly and Hightower are worthy of their 1st round grades because of their elite instincts. But that is really a eye of the beholder type of thing.
"If we cannot find a way, we will make one." -Hannibal
by AvalancheRescueDog on Feb 24, 2012 1:14 PM MST up reply actions
Do you guys really think Lamar Miller will be the pick?
If history serves us right… it is a good possibility. I’ve heard him compared to Jamal Charles (which is a good thing). His knock was underdeveloped lower body strength and he’s an upright runner (which isn’t always a knock… Eddie George).
I still have a funny feeling EFX is targeting another pass rusher, round 1.
"If you went to the Fair with this guy and you played that game where you have to throw the ball through the hole..... he may never get it through the hole, but he's still gonna be walking away with all the stuffed animals!" Prime's commentary on our very own Tim Tebow!!!
"As iron sharpens iron, so will one man sharpen another." The Bible, by way of Tim Tebow.
"If I had to choose between an abundance of football intelligence, or football wisdom, I'd choose wisdom every single time...... John Fox has enough football wisdom to be carried in a dump truck." Me!
Well, I do.
But I recognize my view on Miller is atypical. However, I think the perceived gap between Richardson and Miller will narrow as we approach April’s draft.
Regarding some of the comparisons you mentioned – I think comparing him to Jamal Charles undervaluing Miller’s skill a bit.
Regarding the comments you’ve heard about him running upright. I haven’t noticed this much at all. He’s got a great forward lean that seems quite natural. And he “makes himself small” really well. In fact, when he makes himself small in the hole, he really reminds me of TD. I have seen him run upright when he’s running wide, which wasn’t very common. If the field was open, he’d kick into high gear; but if he had to string it out and select his hole and cut behind it, then he might run upright occasionally.
But, yeah I think he’s the pick.
It's like you're dreamin' about gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly brie time, baby!.
by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Feb 23, 2012 6:34 PM MST up reply actions
Pale, I misunderstood you're question.
No, I don’t think Miller will be the pick. I don’t think Miller will be there when we pick at #25.
I think there are 9 elite players in this draft:
Luck
Griffin
Kalil
Claiborne
Richardson
Zach Brown
Lamar Miller
DeCastro
I’m contemplating moving Zach Brown further down my board (currently, he’s at #9). I put him that high for two reasons. First, I thought Von Miller’s success as a rookie might bolster Brown’s draft stock (some sort of similarity confusion bias). And I thought the success of NE’s tight ends might raise the value of any potential Gronkryptonite, with Brown being the preeminent specimen.
Since then, I’ve read he a below-average (borderline inadequate) tackler.
It's like you're dreamin' about gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly brie time, baby!.
by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Feb 24, 2012 7:43 AM MST up reply actions
I love Trumaine Johnson in the 3rd!
6’2" CB with “good coverage skills” according to Mayock. If the right DT prospect falls to us at #25 I’d really be happy with Doug Martin at 57. Nice job Agent…I am impressed!
Better to be quiet and thought of as ignorant than to open your mouth and remove all doubt
Thanks for the kudos!
I’m pleased with the way it turned out, even though I’m not very familiar with some of the players.
I’ve heard some good things about Johnson too.
Martin will be a good back for many years in the league. And I believe he could be the lead back in a committee approach.
For me, I think when you get a crack at an elite playmaker you take it. That might have been what EFX decided last year when trying to decide between Von Miller and Marcel Dareus. It’s both rare and difficult for DTs to be “playmakers.” I think had they had to choose between Von Miller and Suh, we might have a different playmaker on defense.
Of course, there’s always the question of whether Lamar Miller will end up being an elite playmaker. I guess that’s the bet I’m willing to make.
It's like you're dreamin' about gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly brie time, baby!.
by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Feb 23, 2012 7:10 PM MST up reply actions
Believe me, I wouldn't be upset if we got Lamar Miller...
and I really like the idea of NOT taking a TE this time around. I may be wrong but how many picks do you use for “potential” at the same position?
Better to be quiet and thought of as ignorant than to open your mouth and remove all doubt
by broncofaninIL on Feb 23, 2012 7:31 PM MST up reply actions
I agree.
And given those kids didn’t have an offseason, they deserve another chance to kick butt.
It's like you're dreamin' about gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly brie time, baby!.
by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Feb 23, 2012 7:57 PM MST up reply actions
All those times that your simulator had Cinci take Miller
Who was it spitting out for us at 25?
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."
~Dr. Seuss
"If there is anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot NOW!"
...Zaphod Beeblebrox-Intergalactic President
"If you didn't know, now you know"
Great question.
Most often, it gave us Fletcher Cox because the Steelers kept drafting Brockers. In those simulations, I seem to remember us drafting Doug Martin at #57. I kind of liked those simulations because they also gave us B.J. Coleman in the fifth or sixth. But for me, I wanted Lamar Miller badly enough that I was able to work it out.
If my Big Board even remotely resembles that of the pros come April, then I believe we’ll have a crack at either Cox or Brockers at #25. I think that’s just the way the board will break.
You might notice that my first round differs from most in that it’s missing Luke Kuechly. If my read on him is wrong and he’s drafted in the first, that will only increase the likelihood that Cox or Brockers will be available. Also, you’ll notice the first round doesn’t include Devon Still, someone I’m not as high on as others. For those who want Cox, Brockers or Still at #25, I think at least one of them will be available.
It's like you're dreamin' about gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly brie time, baby!.
by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Feb 23, 2012 7:20 PM MST up reply actions
As good as Miller looks
I would rather have a draft with Cox/Brockers, Martin, and Coleman. But that is just me.
I am impressed with the effort you put into your simulator.
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."
~Dr. Seuss
"If there is anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot NOW!"
...Zaphod Beeblebrox-Intergalactic President
"If you didn't know, now you know"
Believe me, it's not just you.
It's like you're dreamin' about gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly brie time, baby!.
by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Feb 23, 2012 10:21 PM MST up reply actions
Nice work Agent Jerry
However I want the best D Tackle in the first round Fletcher Cox is my pick . But hell I wanted Darius last year and a first round D Tackle since Trever Price left . I have been high on Trumane Johnson since the end of the college season .I think Johnson can play corner or free safety at his size he matches up well with the big receivers in the AFC West . Burfict would be well worth the risk with a fourth round pick . Would rather have QB BJ Colman than Lindley but thats just me . I like the Guard/Center out of Mississippi State Quenton Saulsberry would be a good pick in round four or five to add depth on the OLine . Again thanks for the work
No problem - it was fun.
You should check out the comment I made right above yours in response to hcubed’s question.
Most of the simulations executed when Cincy was choosing Lamar Miller spat out Fletcher Cox for us. And many of them spit out B.J. Coleman too. I like him as well.
I have to say, it’s a fun toy.
It's like you're dreamin' about gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly brie time, baby!.
by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Feb 23, 2012 7:24 PM MST up reply actions
I'd be stoked, BUT
If Brockers is there a few picks ahead of us, wouldn’t throwing in our low 5th to move up for him be soo worth it !
It all depends on your board.
To me, Miller’s better. But if you like Brockers more, then you’d make that move. And incidentally, as I’ve said about the Pitt’s pick, I don’t think they’d actually take Brockers, they’d take either Poe or Ta’amu. So that would mean Brockers would fall to us.
It's like you're dreamin' about gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly brie time, baby!.
by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Feb 23, 2012 7:25 PM MST up reply actions
Voted pissed
1. Lamar Miller. I don’t like RB in first, it’s not a good value. RB is the position where round premium (difference in talent between draft rounds) in the smallest. A lot of undrafted RBs are very successful.
2. Reyes. Good pick
3. Trumain is a terrible prospect. His only asset is height, other than that he is not a good CB. He is rated high on the thought that a tall CB is needed to cover big and tall modern day WRs. But a bad tall CB will never be able to cover those WRs! Please let someone else draft on height, I’d prefer we stick with talent.
4. Burflict. Oh, no. I don’t want this bum anywhere near Dove Valley.
Later rounds – irrelevant.
Good points.
A lot of undrafted RBs are very successful.
I don’t know if I’d say “a lot” but you’re right that a few undrafted RBs have been very successful. I guess it depends on how you define “very successful.”
But it all boils down to how you value Miller. To me, Miller represents an elite enough talent that it makes more sense to consider this in terms of “elite players” rather than “running backs.” If I can get an “elite talent” at any position (aside from kicker or punter) in the first round, then I’d do it.
Conversely, if you believe Miller will be a run-of-the-mill, but competent, running back, you’d be correct.
I don’t know much about Trumain Johnson other than what I’ve read. So…you might be right. As for Burfict, I don’t want him either. I was bummed when the simulator dumped him out like a turd.
It's like you're dreamin' about gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly brie time, baby!.
by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Feb 23, 2012 7:46 PM MST up reply actions
Dumped him out like a turd!
Hahahahahahahahahaha………………
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."
~Dr. Seuss
"If there is anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot NOW!"
...Zaphod Beeblebrox-Intergalactic President
"If you didn't know, now you know"
I have watched a lot of Trumain
Why in your opinion is he a terrible prospect? Seriously, you really know of Trumain from the Big Sky conference and have evaluated him? I have watched every single game he played in for Montana. He is a great CB.
"Life has no smooth road for any of us; and in the bracing atmosphere of a high aim the very roughness stimulates the climber to steadier steps, till the legend, over steep ways to the stars, fulfills itself."
W. C. Doane
by MTBroncosFan on Feb 27, 2012 10:59 AM MST up reply actions
I'd be thrilled
I love miller. I know people hate 1st round running backs, but you know what, get over it.
Reyes fills a major need, Johnson is talented, Burfict in the 4th would be awesome, i’d be okay with Lindley. Taylor and Moss idk too much about
Cool.
Yeah, we’ve been on this journey together. So I expected you’d be happy. Glad to hear I delivered.
It's like you're dreamin' about gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly brie time, baby!.
by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Feb 23, 2012 7:47 PM MST up reply actions
Jerry, I like you
and so I will try to say this delicately, your simulator is skewed. You have inserted to many biased opinions about prospects and then revised Cincy’s team needs to fit your propaganda. To each his own. You got the one player right and missed on the others because of your tunnel vision. Keep tweaking it though. Maybe you can get it to give us Miller, Iloka and Mike Martin with the top 3 picks.
"I am not better than anyone else just because I play football."
Tim Tebow
It's not my simulator that's skewed; it's my inputs.
And I haven’t tried to hide anything. If someone doesn’t know that I think Lamar Miller is special and that I want him on the Broncos, then they’re either new to this site or they’ve been ignoring my rants (which is understandable since I’m long-winded and self-absorbed).
In my post, I said I tweaked Cincy’s needs to reflect what the Bengal fans believed to be the team’s biggest offseason priorities. It turns out that my assumption that running back was their top priority was a misunderstanding on my part. The tweak corrected that.
If you have a problem with the results, then it’s not the simulator or the team needs. It means you have a problem with my Big Board. And that’s fine. This is all a matter of opinion right now.
So here’s a bit more info about my Big Board. As a starting point, I used CBS’ Big Board. I chose CBS’ because they update it regularly and it was easy to extract.
From there, I only changed the grades for about 50 players…only players that I felt I had reason to change. Sometimes this was based on my own evaluation, such as raising Lamar Miller’s grade and lowering Justin Blackmon’s grade. Or if you said Joe Schmoe was going to surprise some people and I had no opinion or awareness of Joe Schmoe, then I’d raise the grade for Joe Schmoe.
I also created a distribution of grades that was loosely based on the wizard over at Draftmetric’s “value groups.”
Other than that, I didn’t change the grades much.
But Digger, how is what I did any different than what anyone does when they submit a mock? When you submit a mock, you’re drafting based on your perceptions of players. By definition a mock is a mock is a mock. There’s always agendas and hopes in place.
I think a limitation of most mocks is they fail to consider what other teams plan to do. They believe that Bronco fans are the only ones who want Mike Martin. Or, they think they’re the only ones who want Lamar Miller. There’s a thread over on Cincy Jungle right now that’s all about Lamar Miller – they want him there too.
Everyone’s got hopes at this stage of the game. I think Nick Cast got a firsthand view of that during MTD’s live mock. Agendas knock heads, but who ever drafts the earliest wins.
Now you might disagree with my assessment of the Broncos’ needs. But again, that’s just an opinion. For me, I said the Broncos two top offseason priorities were running back and defensive tackle (both have a multiplier of 8 out of a possible 10). The next highest was cornerback at 7 out of 10.
In your view, you might say DT should be a 9 or 10 and running back should be a 6 or 7. And that’s cool too. The problem is IT"S MY TOY!
Sardonic grin.
It's like you're dreamin' about gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly brie time, baby!.
by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Feb 23, 2012 8:41 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
You're evil.
I know it’s your toy and your opinions, thus the skewed comment. Probably the wrong word. I’m just a dumb construction worker. I was looking for a word that didn’t offend. Your simulator is very cool and I am impressed. The thing is about your mock you only like your #1 guy. I like all mine or I wouldn’t have picked them.
"I am not better than anyone else just because I play football."
Tim Tebow
You didn't offend me, bud.
The point of developing this was to see what could realistically happen. If I came up with a mock without the benefit of the simulator it would be populated with players I like, irrespective of other teams’ needs and the draft order.
It would probably look something like this:
- - Lamar Miller
- - Kendall Reyes
- - Mike Martin
- - Marvin Jones
- - Jerry Franklin
- - B.J. Coleman
- - Coty Sensabaugh
I think the top two picks are within the realm of reasonable probability, but from there on out, it’s a crap shoot.
It's like you're dreamin' about gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly brie time, baby!.
by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Feb 24, 2012 8:20 AM MST up reply actions
looks more realistic than most mocks.
I like it. Mike Martin is the NT I want for the Denver Broncos in the future. Sign Bunkley to a two year deal and groom Martin.
"I am not better than anyone else just because I play football."
Tim Tebow
i'd take that draft
gotta admit i’m not too high on miller, or any rb as a 1, though. love johnson. burfict at 4 — great risk/reward ratio. besides, if he turns out to be a douche, we trade him to miami for a couple of twos. interesting konz went so high. and it was kind of painful to see kirkpatrick and brockers go 23 and 24. good fun, thanks, i enjoyed it.
"I tell you, we are here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different."
— Kurt Vonnegut
I'm glad you enjoyed it.
I think that if Miller’s gone at #24, then we need to go DT.
Konz going so early was a function of high demand/low supply. Before doing this exercise, I’d never before understood why some smart NFL people reach so wildly at certain positions. I think they do it because there are only so many players available and they know others need to improve at that position too.
Other positions of frequent reaching included the safety positions – again, high demand/low supply. The biggest reach in this draft was Washington’s 7th round selection of SS Lance Mitchell out of Oregon State. That was at pick #197, but Lance Mitchell was 370 on my Big Board. Again, it was a situation where Washington needed to add some depth, so they drafted the best available SS.
It's like you're dreamin' about gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly brie time, baby!.
by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Feb 23, 2012 8:47 PM MST up reply actions
I like Lamar Miller.
If we took him over Justin Blackmon I’d freak out. Of course there is no way Blackmon falls to 26 like he does in your simulation.
We'll see.
I have a feeling Blackmon’s going to slide between now and April.
It's like you're dreamin' about gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly brie time, baby!.
by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Feb 23, 2012 8:49 PM MST up reply actions
First bad news on Blackmon.
Measured shorter and lighter than expected at the combine. Won’t run 40 til pro day. Looking more like a possible fall.
Question. Do you know where I can look for down and distance conversion rates for the entire season for both the Broncos and the league in general? Thinking about a write up.
He didn't stand out at all.
Not only did he come in short and light, but he really didn’t stand out positively at all. I’ve thought all along that if Blackmon was the elite receiver in this class, it was a crappy class. I think what might be closer to the truth is Blackmon shouldn’t be ranked #1.
I think there’s lots of capable receivers in this draft class, many capable of stepping in and playing from Day 1. And Blackmon’s one of those; but he’s no Green or Jones.
It was kind of sad watching Dwight Jones watch his lifelong dream evaporate. I don’t know that he’ll even be drafted at this point.
Regarding your question, I’m not aware of any data source that would provide that for you. But I haven’t searched either. I don’t remember seeing anything like that when I’ve been looking for other things. Topher Doll has an impressive grasp of data availability; I’d recommend asking him. If anyone could tell you off the top of his head, it’d be him.
It's like you're dreamin' about gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly brie time, baby!.
by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Feb 26, 2012 7:01 PM MST up reply actions
It's just Excel.
It's like you're dreamin' about gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly brie time, baby!.
by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Feb 23, 2012 9:42 PM MST up reply actions
Rec. Cool toy
While I think our best value will be RB at 57, you are convincing regarding Miller at 25. You should be his Agent Jerry. He is a Cane, so I would keep the gun.
Keep up the good work, this time of year its nice to have something to read and discuss.
luckily im a bronco and a blazer fan
They can have my gun when they pry it out of my cold dead hand.
Thanks for reading. I’m glad you enjoyed it.
It's like you're dreamin' about gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly brie time, baby!.
by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Feb 23, 2012 9:45 PM MST up reply actions
You should post your entire 7 rd mock draft
over at Mocking the Draft. I would love to see the rest of it.
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."
~Dr. Seuss
"If there is anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot NOW!"
...Zaphod Beeblebrox-Intergalactic President
"If you didn't know, now you know"
I might.
But it’d be such a long post. I’d feel obligated to explain how the simulator works and stuff. And most of those pricks wouldn’t even read my explanation, they’d just skip right to the draft. And then I’d just end up repeating myself again and again and again.
I wonder if I can post it in the comments here…I don’t know if comments can receive tables.
It's like you're dreamin' about gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly brie time, baby!.
by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Feb 23, 2012 10:26 PM MST up reply actions
6th Round
Rd. Pk. TEAM PLAYER POS. SCHOOL
6 160 STL Keenan Robinson OLB Texas
6 161 IND Eddie Pleasant SS Oregon
6 162 MIN Stephen Hill WR Georgia Tech
6 163 TBB Kelcie McCray SS Arkansas State
6 164 CLE Chris Galippo ILB Southern California
6 165 JAX Ladarius Green TE La.-Lafayette
6 166 NOS Cyrus Gray RB Texas A&M
6 167 BUF Grant Garner C Oklahoma State
6 168 NOS Alameda Ta’amu DT Washington
6 169 CAR Cory Harkey TE UCLA
6 170 SEA Mason Cloy C Clemson
6 171 KCC Max Gruder ILB Pittsburgh
6 172 SDC Josh LeRibeus OG Southern Methodist
6 173 CHI Johnny Thomas SS Oklahoma State
6 174 ARI Najee Good ILB West Virginia
6 175 DAL Marcel Jones OT Nebraska
6 176 PHI Cyhl Quarles SS Wake Forest
6 177 NYJ Chris Rainey RB Florida
6 178 OAK Josh Robinson CB UCF
6 179 TEN Brandon Lindsey OLB Pittsburgh
6 180 CIN DeVier Posey WR Ohio State
6 181 DET Sean Richardson SS Vanderbilt
6 182 ATL Mike Harris CB Florida State
6 183 PIT Jaymes Brooks OG Virginia Tech
6 184 PHI Jacquies Smith DE Missouri
6 185 HOU Russell Wilson QB Wisconsin
6 186 MIA Eric Page WR Toledo
6 187 GBP Shawn Loiseau ILB Merrimack
6 188 BAL Christian Thompson FS South Carolina State
6 189 SFN Winston Guy SS Kentucky
6 190 PHI Jerrell Young FS South Florida
6 191 NYG Delano Howell SS Stanford
It's like you're dreamin' about gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly brie time, baby!.
by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Feb 23, 2012 10:40 PM MST up reply actions
Yeah, I know, I know.
It can’t tell the difference between DTs and NTs.
It's like you're dreamin' about gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly brie time, baby!.
by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Feb 24, 2012 8:30 AM MST up reply actions
2nd round
Rd. Pk. TEAM PLAYER POS. SCHOOL
2 33 STL Dwayne Allen TE Clemson
2 34 IND Fletcher Cox DT Mississippi State
2 35 MIN George Iloka FS Boise State
2 36 TBB Luke Kuechly ILB Boston College
2 37 CLE Brandon Weeden QB Oklahoma State
2 38 JAX Marvin Jones WR California
2 39 WAS Leonard Johnson CB Iowa State
2 40 CAR Jerel Worthy DT Michigan State
2 41 BUF Lavonte David OLB Nebraska
2 42 MIA Brock Osweiler QB Arizona State
2 43 SEA Doug Martin RB Boise State
2 44 KCC Dontari Poe DT Memphis
2 45 DAL Kelechi Osemele OG Iowa State
2 46 PHI Dont’a Hightower ILB Alabama
2 47 NYJ Malik Jackson DE Tennessee
2 48 NEP Ben Jones C Georgia
2 49 SDC Harrison Smith SS Notre Dame
2 50 CHI Kevin Zeitler OG Wisconsin
2 51 PHI Joe Adams WR Arkansas
2 52 TEN Amini Silatolu OG Midwestern State
2 53 CIN David Wilson RB Virginia Tech
2 54 DET Senio Kelemete OG Washington
2 55 ATL Whitney Mercilus DE Illinois
2 56 PIT Jerry Franklin ILB Arkansas
2 57 DEN Kendall Reyes DT Connecticut
2 58 HOU Brandon Thompson DT Clemson
2 59 NOS Ronnell Lewis OLB Oklahoma
2 60 GBP Sean Spence OLB Miami (Fla.)
2 61 BAL Audie Cole ILB North Carolina State
2 62 SFN Alshon Jeffery WR South Carolina
2 63 NEP Chase Minnifield CB Virginia
2 64 NYG Orson Charles TE Georgia
It's like you're dreamin' about gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly brie time, baby!.
by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Feb 23, 2012 10:34 PM MST up reply actions
That looks like it could be accurate. You obviously put Franklin higher than he deserves though.
"I am not better than anyone else just because I play football."
Tim Tebow
Says you!
Not me. :)
It's like you're dreamin' about gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly brie time, baby!.
by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Feb 24, 2012 8:30 AM MST up reply actions
3rd Round
Rd. Pk. TEAM PLAYER POS. SCHOOL
3 65 IND Jonathan Massaquoi OLB Troy
3 66 STL Rueben Randle WR LSU
3 67 MIN Antonio Allen SS South Carolina
3 68 CLE Shea McClellin OLB Boise State
3 69 TBB Tommy Streeter WR Miami (Fla.)
3 70 WAS Bobby Massie OT Mississippi
3 71 JAX Mitchell Schwartz OT California
3 72 BUF Coty Sensabaugh CB Clemson
3 73 MIA Chandler Jones DE Syracuse
3 74 CHI Michael Brewster C Ohio State
3 75 KCC Kirk Cousins QB Michigan State
3 76 SEA Josh Norman CB Coastal Carolina
3 77 PHI Devon Still DT Penn State
3 78 NYJ Travis Lewis OLB Oklahoma
3 79 SDC Brandon Boykin CB Georgia
3 80 CHI Chris Givens WR Wake Forest
3 81 ARI Matt McCants OT UAB
3 82 DAL Alfonzo Dennard CB Nebraska
3 83 TEN Markelle Martin FS Oklahoma State
3 84 CIN Brandon Mosley OT Auburn
3 85 ATL Tony Bergstrom OT Utah
3 86 DET James-Michael Johnson ILB Nevada
3 87 PIT Nick Toon WR Wisconsin
3 88 DEN Trumaine Johnson CB Montana
3 89 HOU Billy Winn DE Boise State
3 90 NOS James Brown OT Troy
3 91 GBP Brandon Brooks OG Miami (Ohio)
3 92 BAL Philip Blake C Baylor
3 93 SFN Josh Kaddu OLB Oregon
3 94 NEP Juron Criner WR Arizona
3 95 NYG Cam Johnson DE Virginia
It's like you're dreamin' about gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly brie time, baby!.
by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Feb 23, 2012 10:36 PM MST up reply actions
I know. I don't get the Still love.
He’s overrated. He could be the second coming of Courtney Brown.
It's like you're dreamin' about gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly brie time, baby!.
by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Feb 24, 2012 8:32 AM MST up reply actions
4th Round
Rd. Pk. TEAM PLAYER POS. SCHOOL
4 96 STL Jayron Hosley CB Virginia Tech
4 97 IND Marvin McNutt WR Iowa
4 98 MIN Jeff Allen OT Illinois
4 99 PHI Nick Foles QB Arizona
4 100 CLE Trevor Guyton DE California
4 101 JAX Ryan Steed CB Furman
4 102 WAS Mychal Kendricks ILB California
4 103 MIA Nigel Bradham OLB Florida State
4 104 CAR Mike Martin DT Michigan
4 105 BUF Dwight Jones WR North Carolina
4 106 SEA Tyrone Crawford DE Boise State
4 107 KCC Coby Fleener TE Stanford
4 108 NYJ Aaron Henry FS Wisconsin
4 109 WAS Brian Quick WR Appalachian State
4 110 SDC Nate Potter OT Boise State
4 111 CHI Jamell Fleming CB Oklahoma
4 112 ARI Quentin Saulsberry C Mississippi State
4 113 DAL Duke Ihenacho SS San Jose State
4 114 PHI Lucas Nix OG Pittsburgh
4 115 TEN David Molk C Michigan
4 116 CIN Janzen Jackson FS McNeese State
4 117 DET Bruce Irvin OLB West Virginia
4 118 CLE DeQuan Menzie CB Alabama
4 119 PIT Trenton Robinson FS Michigan State
4 120 DEN Vontaze Burfict ILB Arizona State
4 121 HOU Eddie Whitley FS Virginia Tech
4 122 NOS Mohamed Sanu WR Rutgers
4 123 GBP Shaun Prater CB Iowa
4 124 BUF Rishaw Johnson OG California (PA)
4 125 SFN B.J. Coleman QB Chattanooga
4 126 NEP Terrell Manning OLB North Carolina State
4 127 NYG Robert Turbin RB Utah State
It's like you're dreamin' about gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly brie time, baby!.
by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Feb 23, 2012 10:38 PM MST up reply actions
5th Round
Rd. Pk. TEAM PLAYER POS. SCHOOL
5 128 IND Dwight Bentley CB La.-Lafayette
5 129 DEN Brandon Taylor SS LSU
5 130 MIN Nicolas Jean-Baptiste DT Baylor
5 131 CLE Ronnie Hillman RB San Diego State
5 132 TBB Coryell Judie CB Texas A&M
5 133 WAS Desmond Wynn OG Rutgers
5 134 JAX Tramain Thomas FS Arkansas
5 135 CAR Isaiah Pead RB Cincinnati
5 136 BUF Matt Reynolds OT Brigham Young
5 137 MIA Cliff Harris CB Oregon
5 138 KCC Bernard Pierce RB Temple
5 139 SEA Marcus Forston DT Miami (Fla.)
5 140 OAK Jake Bequette DE Arkansas
5 141 SDC Garth Gerhart C Arizona State
5 142 CHI Tysyn Hartman FS Kansas State
5 143 ARI Jack Crawford DE Penn State
5 144 DAL Olivier Vernon DE Miami (Fla.)
5 145 PHI Evan Rodriguez FB Temple
5 146 NYJ Markus Zusevics OT Iowa
5 147 TEN T.Y. Hilton WR Florida International
5 148 CIN Matt Daniels SS Duke
5 149 ATL DaJohn Harris DT Southern California
5 150 DET LaMichael James RB Oregon
5 151 PIT G.J. Kinne QB Tulsa
5 152 DEN Ryan Lindley QB San Diego State
5 153 HOU Sean Cattouse SS California
5 154 NOS Charles Mitchell SS Mississippi State
5 155 GBP Tom Compton OT South Dakota
5 156 BAL Andrew Datko OT Florida State
5 157 SFN Ryan Miller OG Colorado
5 158 NEP Damien Jackson FS Mississippi
5 159 NYG Lamar Holmes OT Southern Mississippi
It's like you're dreamin' about gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly brie time, baby!.
by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Feb 23, 2012 10:39 PM MST up reply actions
7th Round
Rd. Pk. TEAM PLAYER POS. SCHOOL
7 192 IND William Vlachos C Alabama
7 193 STL Brandon Hardin FS Oregon State
7 194 MIN Derek Dennis OG Temple
7 195 CLE Antoine McClain OG Clemson
7 196 TBB Kyle Wilber OLB Wake Forest
7 197 WAS Lance Mitchell SS Oregon State
7 198 JAX Kheeston Randall DT Texas
7 199 MIA Brett Roy DT Nevada
7 200 CAR Tauren Poole RB Tennessee
7 201 BUF Chandler Harnish QB Northern Illinois
7 202 KCC Blake Gideon FS Texas
7 203 SEA Jarius Wright WR Arkansas
7 204 CHI Chris Polk RB Washington
7 205 ARI Jeff Fuller WR Texas A&M
7 206 DAL Kellen Moore QB Boise State
7 207 MIN Adrien Cole ILB Louisiana Tech
7 208 NYJ Hebron Fangupo DT Brigham Young
7 209 SEA Michael Egnew TE Missouri
7 210 SDC Deangelo Peterson TE LSU
7 211 TEN Casey Hayward CB Vanderbilt
7 212 CIN Dan Herron RB Ohio State
7 213 ATL Scott Wedige C Northern Illinois
7 214 DET Rishard Matthews WR Nevada
7 215 PIT Levy Adcock OT Oklahoma State
7 216 DEN Donte Paige-Moss DE North Carolina
7 217 HOU Joe Looney OG Wake Forest
7 218 NOS Akiem Hicks DT Regina
7 219 GBP Corey Mosley FS Virginia
7 220 BAL Corey White SS Samford
7 221 SFN Julian Miller DE West Virginia
7 222 MIN Emmanuel Acho OLB Texas
7 223 NYG D.J. Holt ILB California
It's like you're dreamin' about gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly brie time, baby!.
by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Feb 23, 2012 10:42 PM MST up reply actions
I know you don't like Polk
but Wow!
What do you have against Hayward?
"I am not better than anyone else just because I play football."
Tim Tebow
Okay, so this is interesting.
I have nothing against Hayward. And that’s the interesting thing about this simulator. I didn’t modify Hayward’s grade at all. That tumble is based on where he ranked on CBS’ board.
There’s another possibility at work: I remember changing the grades of three other cornerbacks: Clemson’s Coty Sensabaugh, Coastal Carolina’s Josh Norman and Boston college’s Donnie Fleming. I raised the grades of Sensabaugh and Norman and lowered Fleming’s (based on their performance in All-Star practices/games). Maybe those grade changes pushed Hayward down.
The thing to keep in mind is that CBS has about 800 players on their board and there’s only ~230 draft picks. It’s like a giant game of musical chairs.
It's like you're dreamin' about gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly brie time, baby!.
by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Feb 24, 2012 7:16 AM MST up reply actions
Another thing that's crazy.
After his Senior Bowl week, I dropped Kellen Moore’s grade down to a level that I thought would result in him going undrafted.
The simulator places a premium on certain positions and discounts others based on my perception of how team’s view their importance (for this modifier, quarterback and offensive tackle have the highest values). I wish I had better information to use rather than my perception. I’m going to look over at Draftmetrics to see if he’s got anything useful (or if anybody has any other ideas, I’m open to them).
But the bottom-line is, I think this modifier raised Moore’s grade enough to push him back into the draft.
It's like you're dreamin' about gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly brie time, baby!.
by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Feb 24, 2012 7:23 AM MST up reply actions
So that format wasn't great.
Tables in comments aren’t the best; but I hope you can sift through it.
It's like you're dreamin' about gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly brie time, baby!.
by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Feb 23, 2012 10:43 PM MST up reply actions
Am I the only one who remembers when Paige-Moss was considered a 1st round pick
and the 2nd best pass rusher in the league. People always say “I don’t care about character, just give me a football player”, Paige-Moss is the perfect example of what where a bad attitude can get you.
Dude is an insane athlete and as a sophomore reached close to double digit sacks (I think) rushing opposite of Coples at North Carolina. He lost his starting role to Kareem Martin this year and I believe was eventually kicked off the team because of his poor attitude. I can easily see Paige-Moss blowing up at the combine and raising his status back up to around a 3rd or 4th round pick.
Anyways, I’d love this draft if it happened this way but something tells me Burflict won’t last till the 4th.
And now for something completely different
*2nd best pass rusher in the draft
And now for something completely different
by AlbertaBronc on Feb 24, 2012 12:20 AM MST up reply actions
I don't remember that, but I believe you.
Prior to this thread, I wasn’t even aware of the kid. But your memory is consistent with the excitement/warnings that others have mentioned here.
It's like you're dreamin' about gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly brie time, baby!.
by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Feb 24, 2012 7:17 AM MST up reply actions
AJF... you the man
Amazing that you developed your own simulator. I studied maths as a post grad and learnt about simulation. Obviously the inputs and random variables are very important. I don’t mean to nit-pick but a theme I got from your post was that you were attempting to manipulate the result to get Miller to land where you wanted him. I’m not having a go. I just want to hear how you answer that “accusation” (for want of a better word).
Much respect though.
"Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space."
"It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes" Douglas Adams
by orange&blue_aussie on Feb 24, 2012 7:43 AM MST reply actions
Fair question.
Well, “manipulate” might be the wrong word too. I used my own Big Board, but the team needs are completely defensible. If there’s a way to make the team needs more objective, then I’m unaware of it. As I said above, I didn’t let my desires get in the way of ranking team needs (except the Broncos’ needs – and that’s because we all think we know what is best for our team).
Just for fun, I ran the simulator again. This time, I used CBS’ Big Board without any grade modification (isn’t “modification” better than “manipulation”?). Here’s what it spit out for us and for the first round:
Rd. Pk. TEAM PLAYER Pos. SCHOOL
1 25 DEN Devon Still DT Penn State
2 57 DEN Doug Martin RB Boise State
3 88 DEN Cam Johnson DE Virginia
4 120 DEN Coryell Judie CB Texas A&M
5 129 DEN Ryan Lindley QB San Diego State
5 152 DEN Jerry Franklin ILB Arkansas
7 216 DEN Sean Baker FS Ball State
1 1 IND Andrew Luck QB Stanford
1 2 STL Matt Kalil OT Southern California
1 3 MIN Morris Claiborne CB LSU
1 4 CLE Riley Reiff OT Iowa
1 5 TBB Trent Richardson RB Alabama
1 6 WAS Robert Griffin III QB Baylor
1 7 JAX Quinton Coples DE North Carolina
1 8 CAR Justin Blackmon WR Oklahoma State
1 9 MIA Ryan Tannehill QB Texas A&M
1 10 BUF Nick Perry DE Southern California
1 11 KCC Jonathan Martin OT Stanford
1 12 SEA Janoris Jenkins CB North Alabama
1 13 ARI Mike Adams OT Ohio State
1 14 DAL David DeCastro OG Stanford
1 15 PHI Luke Kuechly ILB Boston College
1 16 NYJ Melvin Ingram OLB South Carolina
1 17 CIN Dre Kirkpatrick CB Alabama
1 18 SDC Courtney Upshaw OLB Alabama
1 19 CHI Cordy Glenn OG Georgia
1 20 TEN Whitney Mercilus DE Illinois
1 21 CIN Brandon Washington OG Miami (Fla.)
1 22 CLE Michael Floyd WR Notre Dame
1 23 DET Alfonzo Dennard CB Nebraska
1 24 PIT Michael Brockers DT LSU
1 25 DEN Devon Still DT Penn State
1 26 HOU Kendall Wright WR Baylor
1 27 NEP Peter Konz C Wisconsin
1 28 GBP Andre Branch DE Clemson
1 29 BAL Dont’a Hightower ILB Alabama
1 30 SFN Stephon Gilmore CB South Carolina
1 31 NEP Jared Crick DE Nebraska
1 32 NYG Zach Brown OLB North Carolina
I wouldn’t mind that draft at all. I’m not a fan of Devon Still, but since the Steelers would probably go NT ahead of us rather than Brockers, that would mean Brockers would fall to us. I could live with that.
It's like you're dreamin' about gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly brie time, baby!.
by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Feb 24, 2012 9:20 AM MST up reply actions
You know what... that draft looks pretty damn good
Thanks for replying. Sometimes when you unconstrain the model (simulation) you can get the best answer! Though I really don’t understand what’s going on with Cleveland passing on RG3. Not sure if the incremental value of a player is weighed up against the team need in your simulation? The reason I ask is that even though QB isn’t the Brown’s biggest need, the difference in value between RG3 and Reiff is massive. Or maybe you just don’t rate Griffin that high?!?
And yeah maybe the Steelers would go for Poe. But I wonder if Brockers would make a good 5 technique?
"Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space."
"It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes" Douglas Adams
by orange&blue_aussie on Feb 24, 2012 9:33 AM MST reply actions
Replying to AJF above... sorry
"Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space."
"It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes" Douglas Adams
by orange&blue_aussie on Feb 24, 2012 9:33 AM MST up reply actions
Sorry for the delay....
…I was on the can, taking a Burfict.
Not sure if the incremental value of a player is weighed up against the team need in your simulation?
That’s exactly right. I have OT ranked as the highest need for the Browns. But QB is up there too. And in terms of positional modifiers, OT has the highest modifier from a supply/demand perspective.
Or maybe you just don’t rate Griffin that high?!?
This isn’t my board; it’s CBS’s’s’s. I didn’t modify if for the mock I included in this conversation.
This combination of need modifiers allowed Reiff’s talent deficiency to overtake RGIII. But the thing is, you clearly believe that RGIII is much better than Reiff. So much so, that you think if RGIII is available, he should be taken at any cost. The simulator allows you to tweak it to reflect that belief.
I just didn’t do any tweaking for this simulation. I wanted it to be as clean as possible.
In building this thing, my approach was, there are only four variables I can evaluate:
The Big Board
The Draft Order
Team Needs
Team’s Draft Philosophy
As I worked through this, it became evident that the biggest question was how might a team weigh need versus the talent of the best available player. And that’s the secret sauce.
Regarding Poe vs. Brockers, Brockers would make a good 5-technique. But over on BTSC, they claim that they’re set at the ends and that NT is their primary offseason draft need (guard is high too, but they think they should address that through FA). It’s interesting, because so much has been made about the Steelers always going BPA. To read BTSC, that’s not the case.
It's like you're dreamin' about gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly brie time, baby!.
by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Feb 24, 2012 9:59 AM MST up reply actions
How do you judge and quantify "draft philosophy"?
With the small sample size inherent to draftpicks, and the turnover that occurs in front offices and coaching staffs, I find it really difficult to say anything about this unless its a situation where the decisionmaker(s) have been in place for at least a decade…. and even then I’m dubious.
I didn't quantify it.
To me, that variable was the hardest for me to assess. So what I did for that was I included a toggle for each team labeled “BPA?” If I checked this toggle, then all the need-based modifiers would be overridden and the highest-rated player remaining on the board would slot to that team.
For the mock above, I only had one team checked as “BPA” and that was Carolina. And I only did that because this jerk over MTD kept slamming every mock that had any hint that a need-based strategy was used.
That’s another thing I learned from this exercise: Nobody goes strictly BPA. If I toggle the switch “on” for the Broncos given the same parameters outlined in the original draft (with my modified board), the Broncos’ draft looks like this:
ROUND PICK TEAM NEED PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 25 DEN BPA Lamar Miller RB Miami (Fla.)
2 57 DEN BPA Kendall Reyes DT Connecticut
3 88 DEN BPA Mike Martin DT Michigan
4 120 DEN BPA Nicolas Jean-Baptiste DT Baylor
5 129 DEN BPA Isaiah Pead RB Cincinnati
5 152 DEN BPA Ladarius Green TE La.-Lafayette
7 216 DEN BPA Casey Hayward CB Vanderbilt
Dumb, right? Interestingly, that’s one thing that worries me about the upcoming draft: If the Steelers go BPA, they might select Miller. As I’ve said elsewhere, you can make an argument that they might even view RB as a mid-priority need.
It's like you're dreamin' about gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly brie time, baby!.
by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Feb 24, 2012 1:33 PM MST up reply actions
thanks for the explanation
Agree with you that no team goes exclusively BPA…. the Carolina guy is an idiot.
Carolina’s picks may seem like BPA, but thats because besides their QB, C (Kalil is consdierd decent, right?) and maybe MLB (if you assume Beason recovers), I don’t think they have a starting position on the the team that couldn’t be considered in “need” of an upgrade at one or more of the 2 starting slots…
We were in the same position last year…. but that doesn’t mean needs weren’t considered.
To me, all teams are simply looking for marginal improvements over the guys already on the roster… if a position sucks, the marginal improvement at that position is likely to be bigger than at another position where a team is relatively good. Also, early round picks are likely to provide larger marginal improvements, so the draft may seem more “BPA” because replacing the “average” player with a “great” one may be a bigger gain than replacing a “bad” player with a “good” one.
Then, in later rounds, the marginal players you are picking for is often depth positions anyway, where many more positions are also conceivably “needs”. Even if a team has 3 great CBs and 3 average-to-bad TEs, a CB pick in the 7th may be a bigger marginal gain over the 4th or 5th dime-back than a better-rated TE is over the 3rd or 4th TE… roster math matters A LOT. Taking a CB there is still a need-based pick, even though everyone who isn’t thinking critically would say the team has a bigger “need” at TE… but the morons will still say it is a BPA pick.
It would be interesting to look only at 2nd/3rd round picks… I’m guessing these positions almost always seem “needs” based, because teams are typically looking for starter caliber players, but the prospects are not so great that they are highly likely to outperform a mediocre starting veteran already on the roster.
Anyway, great contribution to the dialogue. Good stuff.
I agree with everything you said.
It's like you're dreamin' about gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly brie time, baby!.
by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Feb 24, 2012 4:37 PM MST up reply actions
Thanks for the reply
Mate time zone issues and a plane to catch mean I can’t reply further. But appreciate the answer. It sounds like you have an interesting simulator there.
"Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space."
"It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes" Douglas Adams
by orange&blue_aussie on Feb 24, 2012 8:00 PM MST up reply actions
Generally don't like 1st round RBs
… for the reasons many mention (mainly the shallow talent curve at the position).
BUT… if he runs a 4.3 at his size, he’s definitely moving into that category of “elite” RBs at the far tail of the curve that I think it can be justified. I was firmly against Miller for a long time based on early reviews of him being a “2nd tier” guy, but like you, the more I see and hear about him the more comfortable I get with the idea.
I think I rate CB as a much higher team need than many here at MHR, and that is a position with a very high talent curve dropoff, so I’m highly in favor of getting a CB sooner than later (if we don’t grab a FA)… I rate it far above our need for a DT, at least if we can get Bunkley and Thomas (or equivelent) back in FA (if not, then DT moves up in importance). While I love squid/harris/vaughn, I don’t think any of the 3 are starting caliber NFL players… and Goody isn’t anymore either.
But great input into the debate overall, and you’re absolutely right about the need for many/most mockers to take better account of other teams needs.
CBs have the highest demand/supply modifier in this draft.
According to my team need assessment. In one of the earlier iterations of the simulator, two CBs went in the top 5 – Claiborne to the Vikings and Jenkins to the Bucs.
I think one of the interesting subplots the could emerge on draft day is whether the Bucs select Richardson to augment Blount or if they trade down and go cornerback. I think most people would say that Kirkpatrick at #5 would be a reach. And he is on talent alone; but maybe not when you start to consider the high demand and low supply.
It's like you're dreamin' about gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly brie time, baby!.
by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Feb 24, 2012 1:36 PM MST up reply actions
if CBs go that high
the marginal value will definitely be at DT or RB….
which to me is even more reason why we should vigorously pursue a FA CB like Carr, Finnegan, etc…. I hate being in the position where not drafting a particular position leaves a giant gaping hole in the starting roster. We may not win the bidding war, but I at least want to be in the game.
At MLB, DT, Safety, TE and RB I at least see stopgaps or young prospects…. with the exception of Vaughn (who is a marginal prospect), we don’t have any young/depth CBs that look to have the size/speed combination to play outside CB and replace Goody. Squid/Harris look like good nickels, but don’t match up well outside.
Goodman has to be replaced as starter.
If we do not get a FA starter we must take a CB in the 1st or 2nd round. Gilmore could be the pick.
"I am not better than anyone else just because I play football."
Tim Tebow
I don't know if I agree.
I agree that Goodman has to be replaced and I agree that we need to play in FA. But I think our only option is FA.
Aside from Claiborne and Jenkins (who are out of our reach), is there a cornerback in this draft who’s better than Chris Harris? If there is, I haven’t seen him.
If you think Gilmore is it, I disagree.
I thought the cornerbacks who performed well today were Jenkins, Josh Robinson, Jamell Flemming and my sleeper, Coty Sensabaugh.
How about Coty Sensabaugh? I think he went from UFA to the third round. I’ve got him as the third-best cornerback in the draft and think he should go in the second round.
It's like you're dreamin' about gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly brie time, baby!.
by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Feb 28, 2012 4:48 PM MST up reply actions
So you can tweak this ....
machine how ever you like to produce the pick that you like in the first round? Hay, I have some mountain property in Florida if you are interested!
Who needs Miller more?
Cincy
Bernard Scott
Cedric Peerman
Brian Leonard
Denver
Willis McGahee
Knowshon Moreno
Lance Ball
Who has two 1st round picks?
"I am not better than anyone else just because I play football."
Tim Tebow

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