Some Clarification is in Order: Reviewing my Tebow Analysis
When a person makes a prediction or analysis, either about a player's ability and skill or anything else, it's equally important to review that analysis after the fact to see how accurate you were. With the news that Tim Tebow would be starting the Miami game during the bye week, I spent hours looking over Tebow's gameplay and handed out my analysis of his strengths and weaknesses. While the article did cover a few other topics, the last thing I discussed were my professional opinion on Tebow. In the comments section some agreed and some disagreed with my analysis, to which I responded, lets wait and see. Overall there was a lot of good discussion. When it comes to predictions analysis, that is the nature we deal with. Now that Tebow has started 14 games and seen extended playing time in another game, the second San Diego game. With these games we can get a better picture of to see if his skill set fits my analysis. While we have to remember this isn't an article stating a ceiling to his play, rather his style. Just like we can know what type of quarterback Cam Newton will likely be, or Sam Bradford or Colt McCoy, so can we know what type of quarterback Tebow will be. It's not to say he's better or worse than any other quarterback, rather we are looking at his style of play. Similarly we can compare Peyton Manning's and Tom Brady's differing styles without discussing which is better.
Along with reviewing my analysis of Tebow, we will also look back on my analysis of the Chunk Offense to see if the Broncos trended to it more or less as the season went on. Now much of this will be reviewing material in these two posts, and while I will summarize each article, I encourage those who will be reading this to go back and look at the source articles.
Now that we have the introductions out of the way, let's get to the dirty details.
Reviewing the Chunk Offense:
A few brief excepts from my breakdown the the Chunk Offense:
Now the "Chunk" Offense, or the CO, has been around for some time, or at least parts of it has. Certain players played parts the part of the CO. But it came to rise by an effort of Bill Cowher and Bruce Arians (Now Steelers former OC) for their young quarterback Ben Roethlisberger. During Roethlisberger's first two season the offense was entirely focused on the standard ground and pound offense, relying on Willie Parker and Jerome Bettis to carry the offense and Roethlisberger not losing the game. He didn't even top 20 touchdowns till his fourth season, but in 2006 and 2007, after judging and determining they had something in Roethlisberger, they set out to create an offense that played to Roethlisberger's strengths. Cowher and Arians drew heavily on Andy Reid's offense that he built around Donovan McNabb, although with a different mindset because they didn't have the receiving talent Reid had in Philly.
Key parts and indicators that make up the Chunk Offense:
- Strong use of the quarterback in the red zone
- We see a large percentage of long passes.
- Quarterbacks will take a high level of sacks but they are seen as a reliable risk due to the quarterbacks size and mobility to buy time.
- Along with this comes one of the biggest factors of the CO, the difference between yards per attempt and yards per completion.
- Y/C is generally a bad statistic because a QB can go 1 of 30 for 99 yards so his Y/C is 99 yards. That is why yards per attempt is much more useful, it would show the QB's worth a bit better with 3.3 Y/A.
- Despite this comparing Y/C to Y/A is a good way to look at what type of quarterback you have.
- So when it comes to Y/C minus Y/A the average NFL QB has a difference of 2.7. This is because accuracy isn't key in this offense.
- Running backs are key, though how they are used vary, either in the run game or in a simulated run game (screen game).
There are some that may say "so what?" Well these basic foundations for the CO are contradictory to most major offenses in the NFL today. While some teams may have bits and pieces (Detroit, Carolina and Tampa Bay run an offense that is shifting towards this, and Green Bay runs this though accuracy and consistency plays a much bigger role in their offense) but none run it like Philadelphia and Pittsburgh. Now the Reid CO is a variant of the WCO that has shifted and the Roethlisberger-Arians CO is also a variant yet both are coming to the same conclusion, big plays built off the run/screen game, and both have been wildly successful.
Now with that summarized, I will say as the season went on, it became more and more clear the Broncos were applying the game plan presented by the Chunk Offense. If you want to see how I apply the Chunk Offense to Tebow's play, since the Broncos actually fit the mold better than I expected, I have nothing new to add that I didn't discuss more deeply in the original article.
Reviewing My Tebow Analysis:
Let me do a quick review of my introduction to my comments on Tebow:
Now this isn't meant as a judgement of his play so far, but to gauge his strengths and weaknesses. After I did this I set out to find three players who have the same skill set as Tebow and look to see if these players all have the same strengths and weakness as Tebow. The players I decided to use are Donovan McNabb, Vince Young, Ben Roethlisberger and Cam Newton. Now not all these are perfectly similar to Tebow, namely Big Ben, but Roethlisberger's offense will be a focus of this discussion.
When looking at Tebow he, like all quarterbacks, has strengths and weaknesses. Let's take a quick look at a few facts about Tebow and his style of play and we'll use Tebow as well as the other four quarterbacks to get a better, more rounded picture of Tim the quarterback.
These same principles are the basis for which I did my analysis, and here's what I found.
Strengths:
- Deep passes, though not accurately, but these passes will be a bigger part of the offense
While under McD's offense, the Broncos went deep quiet often no matter who was QB, the percentage went way up once Tebow took the reins. Tim Tebow lead the league in deep attempts, with 23.2% of all attempts going 20+ yards, nearly 1 in 4. The deep passing game was a huge part of the offense, which we've mentioned already in the Chunk Offense review. But like I said, while we would go deep very often, Tebow's accuracy ranked 28th in the league in accuracy with only 31.7% completion percentage for passes over 20 yards. Despite that, the long passes resulted in most of the passing games production and was the key to a number of wins that the Broncos had.
- Mobility will allow for rolling out more successfully and moving past the line of scrimmage
I don't know anyone who disagrees with this comment, with Tebow rushing for 660 yards and 6 touchdowns. He also averaged 5.4 yards per carry, leading the team. But as the season went on Tebow's running ability was shut off more and more as teams were better able to prepare for it, the best examples of this were the second New England game, the second Kansas City game and Buffalo. I don't expect that the running game will disappear, and I hope it doesn't, but using it more sparing, especially the Option, which is very dangerous if used at the right times that capitalize on the defensive schemes.
- Size makes him hard to tackle
Along with the previous item, this was made clear during the season and really doesn't warrant much discussion.
- Screen game
Tebow has great accuracy in the screen game, completing a personal best 57.7% of all his passes to the screen. He was able to look off defenders well and make the throw. The problem is he is still developing the ability to help the play develop and get yards after the catch, his screen yards per carry was 22nd in the league with 4.6 yards per reception. Hopefully with time he'll be able further improve this strength and really maximize his abilities.
"Chunk" offense, lots of big plays
Like some of the things we've discussed already, as well as reviewing the Chunk Offense, this analysis has proven itself correct.
Weaknesses:
Accuracy will likely always be an issue, topping 60% is unlikely
This is the most debated topic surround Tebow, but I'll say what I said in other places, Tebow's accuracy isn't a huge need as long as it improves. If he can get it up to around 55% he will likely be able to lead an offense much more efficiently. The biggest example I give of this is Donovan McNabb, who also runs the Chunk Offense. While I firmly believe that Tebow needs to improve his accuracy for the offense to run smoothly, but I don't think he'll fail if he doesn't get to the league average. Donovan McNabb, considered the 3rd best QB for the entire 2000's, who had a career completion percentage of 59% and only topped 60% for a whole season four times out of his 12 seasons. Reaching 55% will help the offense, help Tebow and will stabilize the team, but after watching him this season and last season, I can expect 60% won't be a regular completion percentage for him.
Now a topic that has become common recently is if Tebow threw it more, he'd be more accurate and I wanted to put that idea to the test and a short time ago I came to these results:
When comparing QB’s, you make a good point on sample size, but something to keep in mind is where Tebow fits in QB’s with a similar number of attempts. If your theory holds true, most QB’s would have a higher completion percentage between 300+ attempts compared to 200-300 attempts. Here’s the actual numbers on that though since 2000:
QB’s with 200-300 attempts: 59.2% completion percentage
QB’s with 300+ attempts: 59.7% completion percentageSo really completion percentage remains unchanged when throwing more and actually the median completion percentage is lower with more attempts because the mean is massively off-set by a few top tier QB’s throwing in the upper 60% and 70% area while most of the QB’s who throw the ball for over 300 times are much less accurate.
So you are right, out of 10 attempts if you miss just 1 it weights more than if you attempt 20, completion percentage does not rise with more attempts, it actually remains the same. If you compare the accuracy of QB’s who accuracy fluctuates regularly, take McNabb for example, they are most accurate with fewer passes, the more passes you make a boom-or-bust QB like Tebow and McNabb throw, accuracy doesn’t changes.
To sum that up, the more you throw doesn't really alter your completion percentage, if you are accurate in a small sample size you are usually more accurate in a large sample size and the same applies to inaccuracy.
We'll talk more about accuracy later in the article.
- Use of the slot, due to inaccuracy, rarely lead receivers well
This is one that may seem strange since Tebow is accurate when it comes to slot passes, completing 52.9% of his passes, but his struggles to fit the ball into a small hole is what makes the strength of the slot, yards after the catch, disappear. The slot is becoming one the biggest tools in the NFL, with the rise of guys like Wes Welker making plays from the slot. What matters when it comes to slot play is the ability to lead receivers who have a gap between them and the defender and letting them catch and run. We saw Tebow's best example of this in the game winning pass against Pittsburgh when Tebow hit DT in stride and that was the game. Like Tebow's accuracy no one is saying Tebow can't make these throws, it's he doesn't make them CONSISTENTLY. The main reason for Tebow's struggles in this area is his long release which can throw off a WR's pace and make him slow down or lay out to make the catch. With the increase in quickness in Tebow's release, this weakness could be overcome, and like the screen game, he can really capitalize on it.
- Will take more sacks than an average quarterback, quite a bit more
Like the deep passing game, this is something that is very easy to track, and it's proving true. Tebow had a sack percentage of 9.9% in his starts, which when you factor in hits is 19.1% of his dropbacks, which is 2nd behind Sam Bradford for QB's with over 10 starts. Just due to the nature of Tebow's play, he's going to escape some sacks, he will also take more sacks while on the move. Mobile QB's have always taken more sacks than pocket passers, the history of the NFL shows that, I don't expect Tebow to buck the trend, but if he can improve his pocket presence that number should go down to a more reasonable number.
- Injuries will plague this style
This was another thing people had some issue with as well, but in Tebow's two seasons he's had two play altering injuries, the first took place against Cincinnati in the 2010 pre-season where Tebow suffered a rib injury on a TD run and missed the following game. The second took place this season where he once again suffered an injury in the playoffs against New England, and after rewatching that game, you can see his ability to throw went down substantially. While Tebow's size does insulate him from injury, he's not immune, and he will be suffering injuries throughout his career, as we've already seen in his previous two years.
- Timing passes, due to instability to sit in pocket and slower release will disrupt these passes
We already discussed this.
- Along with the "chunk" offense, low 3rd down conversion rate and consistency
As we discussed the Chunk Offense earlier, this has already been mulled over.
Conclusion:
After comparing my analysis prior to Tebow taking over to after the season, I feel I was accurate in my original analysis. Now as I mentioned at the beginning, this isn't a ceiling for Tebow or a conclusion of his abilities, rather it's gathering of the facts we are given and presenting them. I've updated my analysis of Tebow and adjusted it as we've seen him play more and more and I'll continue to compare his play to my template next season to see the accuracy and adjust. But I will say this, while it's by no means a ceiling it does layout the type of player Tebow is going to be, and as I said before the draft, after 2010 and after this season, the best comparison I have for him is Donovan McNabb, who isn't a bad guy to model after.
As I said at the start and in the original, this isn't the typical pro-Tebow/anti-Tebow post, but I wanted to get these thoughts out there, and since I believe in accountability, I felt the need to dig up these articles and see how they held up after the season has ended, and I feel confident that both of my analyses were fairly accurate. T Now these are a few examples of other players, some more successful most are not successful, but Tebow can succeed with his overall style of play, but he isn't as good at this style of play as those listed, but they are where his potential can lead. We as fans need to keep in mind the strengths and weaknesses of Tebow's play and not ignore either just because we support or don't support him. Hope this was educational, I know I learned quite a bit rewatching the past two seasons to write this.
For those of you who made it, bravo, this can be disgustingly thick reading, if you have someone nearby ask them to pat you on the back, if no one is nearby, pat yourself on the back and know it's from me, because if I hadn't written this, I likely wouldn't have finished it. For those who didn't actually read it, it basically says the Broncos offense likes big plays and Tebow has both strengths and weaknesses and with that he has potential to grow and succeed in the NFL.
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I enjoyed this article
I chose to remove Tebow from the aforementioned QBs that you used for one simple reason. I don’t think Tebow did well throwing between the hash marks. To hark on the percentages of the long ball (23%) in the games he’s played, I for one would say a good portion (guessing well above 80%) of his throws were along the sidelines.
This upcoming season Tebow has earned the right to start a season with little distraction for the sake of piece of mind. Whether he’s able to build onto the sessions he’s having w/the UCLA QB coach along with the strides from the Minnesota game, only time will tell.
I’m hoping that he can develop the very skills that will enable him continued success but as importantly, make his WRs better. If he doesn’t do that then we’re going to see just how good DC are around the league when they figure out a player.
Say hello to my fast...
PFF
According to PFF, Tebow’s field-position throwing strengths are pretty counter to conventional wisdom:
He was rated above average when throwing towards the deep and medium middle. He was also rated above average when throwing to the deep right side.
He was rated below average when throwing towards the deep and medium left. Despite all the announcers saying that teams were trying to take away his ability to run left.
His short game looked worse. Average for backfield tosses to the left and right, and to the left flat. Below average to the backfield center and center flat, and the right flat.
Oh, and to your original point, he sent 53 attempts to the sidelines (for attempts beyond 20 yards), and 18 to the center. So you’re about right – that’s around 75% – although that’s looking at it as splitting the field in thirds, rather than strictly right along the sidelines.
The middle throws you were referring to
Are correct, Tebow is most accurate in the middle but that doesn’t mean he’s most successful there in terms of the goal of the middle, slant passes, which is yards after the catch. So while Tebow was more accurate across the middle, he still focused on the outside passes more.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
regardless of where he was most successful
he needs to improve upon all passes, he will, I have no doubt in my mind. The kid does not have QUIT in his DNA!
Brad James
Follow me on Twitter
With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!
by the new Bradfather on Feb 25, 2012 4:45 PM MST up reply actions
True words
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
by Topher Doll on Feb 25, 2012 11:47 PM MST up reply actions
rec
I enjoyed the first article quite a bit, and it’s always nice to see a retrospective of earlier predictions. Thanks!
Great review Thoper
Btw I also enjoyed a lot the original post about the CO.
This signature was sacked by Von Miller.
I bleed Orange & Blue. GB².
Thanks Fabio, and it will be interesting
To see if the Broncos stick with that mindset next season, continuing to go deep often.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
I think so
The tendency is to improve here and there and add some new plays besides redesigning others to create more and more threats.
Our staff is very wise. This is the foundation for any winning franchise and we are pleased to be well administrated. I have no doubt our smart FO will make the CO even better in 2012.
This signature was sacked by Von Miller.
I bleed Orange & Blue. GB².
by Fabio Broncos on Feb 25, 2012 3:50 PM MST up reply actions
The low 3rd down conversion rate is why this will fail
A low completion rate on 1st down – with a normal run on 2nd (or vice versa) – will produce gobs of 3rd and long enough downs that must be converted in order to have another chance to throw deep. Throw deep on that 3rd down (with an even lower completion % because the defense is now geared up for the pass) and all you do is reduce your scoring opps. This sort of offense means being blind to situational necessity. That situational necessity is – short pass.
The “failure” of this offense will occur because scoring will ultimately depend more on chunk luck than on the application of skill. It will work better against poor defense teams – but any offense does. It will not score enough to keep up with good offense teams – which will simply force the defense to be among the league’s elites in order to win games. And if the defense is winning games, then again who cares what the offense is calling itself. The ceiling for this sort of offense – in isolation – is 50% depending on luck and schedule. Coin flip territory. And that’s the ceiling. And higher achievement – again depending on luck and schedule is entirely because it will be the defense which wins games – not the offense.
I think that may be a bit of a miss understanding
While these teams (Pittsburgh, Philly) usually do pass on 1st down, since they are able to complete a larger number of their passes, and this offense is by no means a low scoring one considering Roethlisberger, McNabb and now Vick have all had very top tier touchdown numbers.
I think where people begin to see misunderstanding more is when they think the Broncos are the peak of this offense, they aren’t, but because of a low accuracy in our offense shows the weakness of the offense, but if Tebow can increase his accuracy, that way it won’t rely on “chunk luck.” This offense has lead to four Super Bowl appearances, two rings and seven Pro Bowls. Add Michael Vick, who also is playing in the Reid CO, you add another Pro Bowl visit in that system. Oh and the record for a player in these two systems is among the best of the decade, Roethlisberger-Arians (40-18) and the Reid CO (101-53-1). These systems work. That’s more than luck, though if Tebow’s accuracy doesn’t increase, luck will play a big part, but if he can reach a level of accuracy similar to McNabb or Roethlisberger, or heck even Newton or Freeman, this offense is efficient, high scoring and a winning offense.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
The teams/QB you mention succeeded only when a)their teams defense was elite and/or b)the QB had a 3rd down completion % of about 60%
With the Steelers, they’ve had both about every year (all but one I think). McNabb has certainly been more erratic than Ratburger on 3rd downs. But he still has only fallen below 55% in 3rd down completions in 5 years. In two of those years, the Eagles had a top 5 defense. In one, the Eagles had an average defense and finished 6-10. In two, McNabb lost his job because he couldn’t keep his offense on the field and thus his butt off the bench.
The problem I have with even a McNabb/Tebow comparison is that those were McNabb’s worst years. Tebow’s going to have to improve a lot just to get to that level. Tebow’s current 3rd down % is comparable only to the two years where McNabb lost his job.
Ultimately, I guess I think that the only offense in the entire NFL on 3rd and medium or so is the “get-a-first-down” offense. In that situation:
Every sack results in a turnover (via a punt)
Every fumble lost results in a turnover
Every fumble recovered results in a turnover (via a punt)
Every interception results in a turnover
Every incomplete results in a turnover (via a punt)
It’s too long to run so every defense is geared up for the pass – rushers ready and coverage at max
These are uniquely high stakes for many of these outcomes.
The “chunk offense” that you describe requires a QB who is uniquely unsuited to that 3rd down situation – a fast pass to minimize sacks and accuracy to minimize incompletions on short tight routes.
A QB who can master this situation is no longer merely a “chunk” QB. They are an NFL QB. A QB who can’t master this situation sits on the bench a lot and is usually called a backup QB. Unless we are in the midst of a nice streak of luck and are confusing that with a plan.
This isn’t a bash on Tebow. Just a recognition that a lot of what we’re looking at in 2011 is luck – and Tebow’s needed improvements are really very very difficult ones that we can’t take for granted at all.
by yibberat on Feb 25, 2012 5:22 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Oh I'm fine realize this isn't so much about Tebow
And I realize luck played a part in this season, the first article about the Chunk Offense the Broncos had only had Tebow as the QB for a few games, it wasn’t meant as a review of the Broncos offense, it was a review of the offense that was run by the Steelers and Eagles, and to say the Eagles have fielded top defenses is a bit off, though they averaged decent defenses, nowhere near elite. As for the Steelers defense, while elite, it had no play in the mindset of the offense according to Arians.
I understand your concerns about accuracy, and I agree that accuracy will be a factor going forward, even in the Chunk Offense, and nowhere did I saw it was irrelavent, rather accuracy isn’t the focus of the offense as it is in New Orleans or New Englnd. As I said during the article a few times, this isn’t saying Tebow and offense is at that level, rather that is an example of the offense working, I nowhere said the current Broncos system was a successful example. The reason for the first article was to show that this offense CAN WORK in the NFL, not that it was currently working. The Chunk Offense wins Super Bowls, it scores lots of points, and leads QB’s to Pro Bowls. Now I’m not saying we are at the level of executing the Chunk Offense well, but I was refuting the myth that a team can’t succeed with the Chunk Offense.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
by Topher Doll on Feb 25, 2012 11:53 PM MST up reply actions
My point was that NFL teams may well do all sort of things on 1st and 2nd to tailor their offense around their QB’s strengths/weaknesses. But on 3rd down (esp outside FG range), every QB in the league is situationally forced to play the same hand. They don’t play their game. They play the game the defense allows in that situation. If the QB succeeds, they can play more. If they fail, they will lose their job eventually. And that particular game is high stakes dink and dunk.
Yes, TT currently compares to McNabbs worst years
… but I think we’d hope last year is one of TT’s “worst years” too… if TT doesn’t improve, the team will lose. I think everyone knows that, and there is little point in disputing it…. TT was not good enough last year for the team to be consistently competitive going forward. 15ppg won’t cut it.
The hope, which I give no more than a 50-50 shot, is that TT improves enough to make it work consistently enough that we can consistently win. As McNabb, Reid, Ben, et. al. show, the style isn’t the problem, as long as there is execution.
Exactly
And I wasn’t comparing the production of McNabb and Tebow, moreso the style, like you said.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
with that said
he is only a neophyte, it’s good to get the bad out of you early…
Brad James
Follow me on Twitter
With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!
by the new Bradfather on Feb 27, 2012 4:00 PM MST up reply actions
The Roethlisberger/Arians era is over
now it’s Roethlisberger/Todd “I Never Shave or Wear Deodorant” Haley
Brad James
Follow me on Twitter
With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!
by the new Bradfather on Feb 25, 2012 5:40 PM MST up reply actions
Haha that is true.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
by Topher Doll on Feb 25, 2012 11:48 PM MST up reply actions
know ye not
that this defense is on its way to being really spectacular? I think everyone will improve and we will draft well. At the end of the day, Tebow deserves a fair shot to be our long-term signal caller. As I have hitherto said, I like his chances!
Brad James
Follow me on Twitter
With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!
by the new Bradfather on Feb 25, 2012 5:39 PM MST up reply actions
re defense
I’d really like to think so but I think we’ve only got one defense-first draft left. Broncos fans are not Steelers fans. We are not a defense minded fanbase. We don’t care much for the big uglies. The mania among fans is — Tebow – not Champmania or Vonmania or Doommania or Bunkleymania.
re Tebow – I agree with you. Less sanguine about his chances but I actually would like to have Tebow and some veteran QB here for the next few years – and not draft anyone or waste efforts looking for the next new plaything. Even if Tebow sucks next year – I will be the last person on the board calling for his head. I may advocate starting the veteran QB – but I really won’t care. I think we need less attention spent on QB for a few years not more
the Orange Crush?
Steve Atwater? Dennis Smith? Tommy Jackson? Randy Gradishar? We do have an illustrious defensive heritage!
Brad James
Follow me on Twitter
With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!
by the new Bradfather on Feb 25, 2012 7:26 PM MST up reply actions
Offense sells tickets. Defense wins championships.
Win the individual battles at the LOS - all else flows from that.
by DE_BroncoFan on Feb 27, 2012 8:41 AM MST up reply actions
Tebow v. McNabb
Great comparison. I’m surprised more people didn’t pick up on it earlier when they seemed to hone in on the Big Ben comparison. Ultimately, though Tebow will be Tebow. A full off season of Tebow working with his receivers as starting QB should be very helpful to his improvement.
If I can't have high expectations that succeed, I''d rather have high expectations and be disappointed than have low expectations and be resigned to losing.
by OrangeandBluesBros on Feb 25, 2012 3:15 PM MST reply actions
Thanks, and I'm not saying Tebow shouldn't be Tebow
Just that McNabb represents a high level for the style of play similar to Tebow.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
Not "disgusting" in the least Max, but a little exhausting...Great article though!
When we first drafted Tim Tebow the love blinders went on for a lot of people, me included, because there is so much to like about this kid. His intangibles are off the charts imo, but that doesn’t make him better, he has to show that he can get better and reach that level of production the Denver Broncos need to contend for the SB title. We saw some progress with Tim during the season, and then we saw some lapses in production and it hurt the team. I looked at it as no contact with coaches and several other things that happened with the lockout. We saw his confident level plummet during TC when Kyle Orton was named the starter, it was written on his face and written right here in KK’s dailey analysis.
EFX has taken a giant leap of faith with Tebow as we are hearing, but do they really believe what they are saying? We don’t know. I sincerely hope Tebow can improve his techniques/mechanics and mental part of the game.
"You hate to think you have to censor your language to meet other people's lack of understanding" -Julian Bond
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Thanks for your thoughts, as always
And we’ve heard a lot of talk so far this off-season, what matters will be what they do with the playbook and who they bring in at QB to compete with Tebow. Going to be a lot to talk about this off-season, and a lot of questions and excitement going into 2012.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
@top her doll.. nice piece on Tim's game or lack of.
Camp competition is where he fails badly “they took my job away”. If he does improve greatly throwing in these three months then no matter whom they bring in, he will take a backseat in throwing. Adam Weber was better than He in camp.
If EFX pulls the trigger on Ryan or Brock then I think Tim will run the third-down options.
Kreese and Lawrence will decide if Tim Tebow can develop into our future.
Bronco fan since 1966. Current biggest Bronco fan in Vegas, living the good life.
huh?
they took my job away.
Like Tebow would ever say that.
What I keep reading ad nauseum is the unrealistic expectations to
improve greatly throwing in these three months.
How much improvemnt does any QB honestly make in 3 months? Is every other skill player expected to greatly improve his speed, etc. in the off season? Perhaps I’m wrong and others have done it; I just don’t think we’ll see the improvement of 10 or 15% completion percentage,
GB 2
They took my job away
is what that freaking poser Dr. Quinn Medicine Woman ERRR Brady Quinn whined about, get your QBs straight buddy
Brad James
Follow me on Twitter
With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!
by the new Bradfather on Feb 25, 2012 5:41 PM MST up reply actions
tnB
Here is the article:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/05/tebow-on-starting-job-i-feel-like-it-was-grabbed-back-away/
Go Broncos!
2011 AFC West Champions
Let's go racing boys!.... the one good thing about the NFL's offseason is the start of the NASCAR season
actually
Tebow did say that after the Orton trade fell apart. He said he thought the starting job was his and they gave it to Orton
Go Broncos!
2011 AFC West Champions
Let's go racing boys!.... the one good thing about the NFL's offseason is the start of the NASCAR season
I stand corrected
both Tebow and Quinn are guilty
Brad James
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With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!
by the new Bradfather on Feb 25, 2012 7:27 PM MST up reply actions
Spot on!
Nice analysis…I noticed though you didnt comment of 3rd down &? Elway sees this as the major issue that must be improved – and an improvement in passing percentage to 55% should help that. If so -it would change the whole dynamic. If Tim can pick up his game a notch or two, then defenses will really be challenged to prepare for us. They wont be able to practice and focus on one thing. The games would have been closer and more competitive if we had few of those 3 awful quarters of offense..our weaknesses in defense then were exposed as well…Im just excited to see Tim improve, with a new RB and an improved D…should make for at least an exciting year………
Thanks for your thoughts
And in relation to 3rd downs, it’s a tricky situation and has a lot of factors. Obviously a lot depends on 1st and 2nd down as well as play calling, but Tebow does have to improve his execution on 3rd downs, especially when blitzed, which is where Tebow struggled, when forced to pass in the face of a blitz. Obviously improved accuracy overall would mean an improvement on 3rd downs, but being able to make throws when pressured, especially on 3rd downs, will be key. If Tebow can work on speeding up his release, which can be done, he will improve his accuracy across the middle, on timing passes and in tight windows, which will lead to more success for the offense overall.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
by Topher Doll on Feb 25, 2012 11:57 PM MST up reply actions
Topher I wrote an article on here right after the draft comparing Tebow to Steve McNair
Still believe it to this day that he will have a similar career to Steve. Everything from their leadership, faith, college stats, combine results, size, height, toughness, mobility and even throwing motion compare to one another. Anyways thats how I assess his progress is through comparing him and McNair. Cool post man good read.
Tebow time is coming on like a freight train. Orton is stumbling over every plank, tie and rail.
Thanks
And the McNair comparisons are pretty solid as well.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
I don't desire him to
die in that manner though, but otherwise, it is apt
Brad James
Follow me on Twitter
With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!
by the new Bradfather on Feb 27, 2012 3:47 PM MST up reply actions
Nicely done. As you might expect of me, I read the whole thing. :-)
Re: 3rd down completion . I think it is more useful to look at 3rd down conversion %, although I haven’t seen a stat that takes into account a QB scrambling for a conversion (or a TD) on 3rd down. TT had 35 rushing first down in 2011; Cam Newton had 51.
Big Ben was second in the league this year at converting via pass on 3rd down (52.1). Ben led the league in 2010 with 50.1% in those situations. Brees led the league this year.
TT was the worst in the league at converting by pass on 3rd down – 21.6% (16/74) of the time (for qualifying QBs). The next worst in the league was Bradford at 29.8% (31/104). Average QBs (e.g. KO) tend to convert at 40% via the pass on 1st down. Elite QBs convert at 45% or greater – although most people would not consider Dan Orlovsky elite (45.6% in 2011).
Win the individual battles at the LOS - all else flows from that.
The 3rd down and medium situation actually eliminates dual-threat a bit
It’s too long for even a dual threat to rely on running. If they get 4 yards on a scramble, the result is still a turnover. I looked at Cam Newtons and Tebows stats this year in 3rd and 6-10 yards – both passed about 75% of the time. Tebow actually had pretty poor results from his scrambles in those situations – avg only 4.5 yards per carry which isn’t enough overall to get the 1st down compared to Cam who averaged over 10 yds per carry then. In large part I think because Tebow’s passing complete% was so poor in those situations (less than 40%) that teams could afford to key on him a bit more and shut his run option down a bit more.
It’s why I think completion% in that particular situation is so important. 3rd and short? yeah plenty of options for any type of team or QB. 3rd and long (10+ yards)? the conversion rate is so low anyway that you’re dealing with a bit more luck/flukiness (both the bad luck of being in that situation and the luck of getting out of it). 3rd and medium? teams face it a lot – and it’s usually on the QB passing game to get you out of it.
Out of curiosity I went to see where TT ranked in terms of getting YAC from his receivers
Tim only got 38% of his total passing yardage from YAC, this was the third lowest number for qualifying QBs. Matt Moore (36%) and Orlovsky (33%) were worse. This could be interpreted as either the QB was not putting the receiver in a position to be able to run after the catch (poorly thrown but catchable ball) or that the receivers were given a chance to make YAC but did not have the escapability to do so (quick slant, bubble screen, dump off in the flat). The best in the league last year at getting YAC from their receivers as a % of total yards was a bit of a surprise to me
Gabbert – 53.3%
Yates – 52.9%
Painter – 52.2%
Fitzpatrick (not a surprise) – 52.1%
Hasselbeck – 51.9%
Brady (also not a surprise) – 51.7%
In terms of total YAC the leaders are the guys that anyone would guess – Brady, Bress, Stafford
Win the individual battles at the LOS - all else flows from that.
John Elway always looked as if he had unlimited effectiveness while rolling out to pass, or attempting dropback passes. Culter, Plummer, Griese, and Orton each had their skills and limitations.
Tim Tebow looks as if his limitations with pass plays (either rolling out to pass, or dropback) are similar to his difficulties taking snaps under center at the beginning of the year – he just hasn’t been playing QB like that and the Florida-style passing game could be the easiest path to more passing effectiveness. I have no idea whether it would work in the pros with Tebow running it (i.e. with the Bronco’s level of talent on offense, against NFL defenses).
The analysis I hold true is from Mark Schlereth at the beginning of the 2011 season, who described Tim Tebow’s passing difficulties as stemming from "being a sight thrower instead of a location thrower."
I’m hopeful something happens to improve the passing game for next year, and (perhaps foolishly) hang on every word of reports from Tebow’s offseason training as a passer.





































