Switch on the OL....
Okay....what do you guys think of switching Orlando Franklin to LG and have Zane Beadles and Ryan Harris battle it out for RT.....from what I recall in the past when Harris was hurt Beadles took over RT for a bit and was very productive....LG is Franklins original position in college I believe so he would comfortable there....I think this switch would help on 2 fronts....one Franklins pass blocking woes would be moved in the box which would help him and secondly Beadles being continually overpowered in the trenches would be replaced with Franklins strenght in there........what do you think...
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Zane Beadles completely sucks as a RT. Much worse than Orlando Franklin in run block and worse than Franklin in pass block.
But Ryan Harris (if healthy – rarely) is a much better pass blocker than Franklin. But he isn’t as good in the run game.
If you asked if we could flip Franklin and Harris… Yes. Franklin and Beadles… heck no.
Tim Tebow is Denver's 2012 starting QB. I'm not even kind of sorry that offends some of you (including you Elway).
What he said.
"If we cannot find a way, we will make one." -Hannibal
by AvalancheRescueDog on Feb 3, 2012 2:00 PM MST up reply actions
Beadles was not productive at RT. He was a little more productive when he played LT in the preseason in place of the injured Clady but was atrocious on the right side.
Tim Tebow wears 3WM and drinks Tuscan whole milk.
This isn't as big of an issue as we're making it out to be
We’re a run heavy offense so there must be a slight emphasis placed on run blocking. I am going to go out on a limb and say Beadles is quite a bit better at pulling on traps and the patented Tebow QB draw. Franklin is more of a straight ahead road-grader. He is better off in this offense as a Tackle. I think a better solution might be to flop the left and right side of the line, but even that is a drastic solution to a problem that will get better with time and patience.
"You’re only great if you win something. I mean, Alexander wasn’t Alexander the Mediocre or Alexander the Average. He was Alexander the Great, and there’s a reason for it."-Shannon Sharpe
even if tim's blind side is right
the league in general is primarily geared for left, and that’s where a lot of the real head hunters make their living. franklin doesn’t have clady’s feet, he’d get beat like a drum. i agree with your final sentence. give him time. time and getting kuper back will make the whole line look better.
"I tell you, we are here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different."
— Kurt Vonnegut
How about an actual offseason?
Calling Orlando Franklin a bust at this point is knee jerk at best. Continuity is going to help these guys more than anything. Magazu is a great Oline coach. If we’re patient with these guys, great things will follow!
"You’re only great if you win something. I mean, Alexander wasn’t Alexander the Mediocre or Alexander the Average. He was Alexander the Great, and there’s a reason for it."-Shannon Sharpe
I voted "no" because we need a legitimate RT
I agree that we should move Franklin to LG but I don’t think Beadles or Harris should be protecting Tebow’s blindside. I hope we go after Mitchell Schwartz, RT, Cal in the late 3rd round. It would be a small reach but he’d fit perfectly.
TurfSharks.com
I agree
Draft our future right tackle. Move Franklin to LG. Let the position battles play out. If Harris wins it back, great. If Zane some how wins it, great. If the rookie somehow winds it, great. No matter what, we’ll have more depth at O-line. Franklin will be better at his natural LG position. From what I remember, he pull pretty well and when he gets a full head of steam he can blow open a hole a semi truck could drive through.
GO BRONCOS!!!
Oh, EFJ
Don’t you think Ryan Harris is a legit RT??? I do…
My only concern is about his ability to keep healthy! If he could, he would be at least a par RT…
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by Fabio Broncos on Feb 4, 2012 8:09 AM MST up reply actions
I think he WAS a great zone blocking RT
I’m not sure I trust him as a power run blocking RT and I know I don’t trust him covering Tebow’s blindside. With a left handed QB the RT becomes the 2nd most important position on the team. I’d prefer a major upgrade and I think Mitchell Schwartz has stood out as one of the best in college football after Riley Reiff.
TurfSharks.com
I really think he deserves a vote of confidence,
before we all think he is done.
His major problem is called injury. Anyway, I’m glad at least we signed him very early and so our coaches have plenty of time to evaluate his currenct qualities (or lack of) to play tackle for us.
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by Fabio Broncos on Feb 4, 2012 8:17 AM MST up reply actions
I don't know how you guys are ALREADY done with Franklin at RT???
Dudes…. he was a rookie, and one who played REAL well. His run blocking (along with Kuper’s) was elite. He made several All Rookie teams at RT… why in God’s green earth would we switch him out now?
"If you went to the Fair with this guy and you played that game where you have to throw the ball through the hole..... he may never get it through the hole, but he's still gonna be walking away with all the stuffed animals!" Prime's commentary on our very own Tim Tebow!!!
"As iron sharpens iron, so will one man sharpen another." The Bible, by way of Tim Tebow.
"If I had to choose between an abundance of football intelligence, or football wisdom, I'd choose wisdom every single time...... John Fox has enough football wisdom to be carried in a dump truck." Me!
Because he's better suited inside and he'd be an upgrade over Beadles
It’s not like we want him off the team; just at a different position.
TurfSharks.com
Haven't you heard
the rookies are supposed to all be stars their first year? They can’t make mistakes and should be All Pros by the 2nd year or they are a bust.
Believe you can and you're halfway there.
Theodore Roosevelt
by Digger24 on Feb 3, 2012 12:46 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
LOL
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by Fabio Broncos on Feb 4, 2012 8:10 AM MST up reply actions
I agree with you Pale, and putting Franklin (6'7") in the middle would be a grave mistake.
Anybody who thinks Orlando Franklin is a bust at RT after coming out of college and never playing the position is just fooling themselves. Did he struggle in his first year without any offseason to develop? Sure, so did a lot of the other rookies, but under the tutorship of Chris Kuper he showed progress too. One individual declared yesterday that Franklin was the leagues worst RT per-source of PFF. With the 2nd youngest OLine in the league I would agree to that on paper, but not on real time playing. The whole OLine struggled to block for 3-4-5-6 and 7 seconds to protect Tim Tebow in his indicisiveness, who wouldn’t struggle in that? Me? I’m excited that this unit get’s a WHOLE off season to work with eachother and the coaches.
Win, lose or draw, we are the Denver Broncos! 13-3 Baby!!! Until we ain't!
We're not saying he's a bust
We just think he’d be even better at LG. I think we all agree that our O-line could use one more upgrade. Most people seem to agree that Zane is the weakest link. In my opinion Franklin would make a better LG than RT. So, we draft a right tackle. If he can make the pro switch and play right tackle at the next level better than Franklin, great, move Franklin inside. Then we’ve got Zane as a backup, who can play just about any position on the line with out the kind of drop you’d expect from most backups. If it works out, our O-line just got ALOT better and is still quite young.
GO BRONCOS!!!
PFF can back some things up
but why would our ENTIRE O-Line be up for the Madden Protectors Award (given to one of the 5 best O-Lines in the league) if any one piece on it sucked too bad. Out of the 5, Beadles and Walton are definitely the weakest links, but they still are young, and those tough SOB’s never miss action.
Here’s a stat for you:
Between Chris Kuper and Orlando Franklin (the right side), we had THE most 10+ yard runs in all of football with 33. Franklin is what he is… a mauler… a road grader who will pave the way for 1,000 yard backs until he retires. Think of him as a young Flozell Adams. He will never be a Clady-like pass blocker, nor was he ever intended to be. He is Debo… he is bad… and he’s here to stay. I saw at least 2 respectable sources give him a spot on their All Rookie teams as a RT.
"If you went to the Fair with this guy and you played that game where you have to throw the ball through the hole..... he may never get it through the hole, but he's still gonna be walking away with all the stuffed animals!" Prime's commentary on our very own Tim Tebow!!!
"As iron sharpens iron, so will one man sharpen another." The Bible, by way of Tim Tebow.
"If I had to choose between an abundance of football intelligence, or football wisdom, I'd choose wisdom every single time...... John Fox has enough football wisdom to be carried in a dump truck." Me!
I agree with your agreement... (oh sounded weird)
But I disagree about being a mistake putting a tall kid at guard. If he can play leveled, there’s no problem on having such a tall guard. Remember he made an outstanding job at college…
Btw, I’m just wondering it… As I commented below, I’m not sold this year if we need a tackle (and slide him inside) or a guard (and keep him as a tackle) to improve our OL, kicking Beadles to a backup job.
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by Fabio Broncos on Feb 4, 2012 8:12 AM MST up reply actions
I for letting this group gel together for years.
They all showed progress as the season wear on. Gives these guys an offseason and they just might be off to the races…
"You hate to think you have to censor your language to meet other people's lack of understanding" -Julian Bond
Follow @bfree2bronc
That's where I think exactly the same.
Let’s give them a full offseason and another year to develop. Then we can realize how we can upgrade the OL.
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by Fabio Broncos on Feb 4, 2012 12:04 PM MST up reply actions
Ditto, Pale!
That’s exactly what I commented below, before reading this comment you made.
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by Fabio Broncos on Feb 4, 2012 8:10 AM MST up reply actions
i don't mind moving Franklin in.
But then we need to replace him with a very good veteran tackle. And there unfortunately isn’t one out there in free agency. I’d rather not use our 1st round pick on a tackle and put another rookie on our o-line, so unless we go get via trade, I see our line staying the exact same.
Wooooot! one of my teams made the postseason and won! PLAYOFFS!!!1
Denver Broncos: 2011 AFC WEST Champs!
Come on Toronto teams, one of you make the goddamn playoffs.
If anything EFX could sign a LG in free agency to replace Beadles if they feel he isn't good enough for the position.
I’m for letting this group grow together and fill other needs that are far more demanding right now.
Win, lose or draw, we are the Denver Broncos! 13-3 Baby!!! Until we ain't!
Don't count on Harris.
He is questionable at best.
Believe you can and you're halfway there.
Theodore Roosevelt
He signed with Philly the went on injured reserve.
He was their starting RT when he went down.
"You’re only great if you win something. I mean, Alexander wasn’t Alexander the Mediocre or Alexander the Average. He was Alexander the Great, and there’s a reason for it."-Shannon Sharpe
Back surgery is not something to sneeze at.
He may not even make our roster let alone start. Just saying.
Believe you can and you're halfway there.
Theodore Roosevelt
Putting a 6'7" Franklin at LG over Tebow's throwing arm makes about as much sense than a one-legged man at a butt kicking contest.
Win, lose or draw, we are the Denver Broncos! 13-3 Baby!!! Until we ain't!
Just as much sense as putting 6'4'' Jahri Evans over 6'0''(maybe) Drew Brees throwing arm?
Or Eagles having 6’5’’ Evan Mathis LG over Vick’s 6’0’’ throwing arm?
Bottom line is others have done it and have had success with it.
-Champ Bailey's calendar goes straight from March 31st to April 2nd; no one fools Champ Bailey-
-The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese -
Maybe move Clady to RT
To protect Tebow’s blindside, and have Harris at LT
LT Harris
LG Franklin
C Walton
RG Kuper
RT Clady
I wonder if Beadles can play center…
by e_saites on Feb 3, 2012 2:16 PM MST via Android app reply actions
I'd prefer to keep a TE there and Clady at LT...
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by Fabio Broncos on Feb 4, 2012 8:15 AM MST up reply actions
It's strange,
I’ve heard analysts refer to Denver’s line as one of the best, particularly at run blocking, but on the contrary I read reports of Walton, Beadles and Franklin being the worst at there positions, how can one of the better lines as a whole have three of the worst starting linemen in the game.
by e_saites on Feb 3, 2012 2:29 PM MST via Android app reply actions
If he moved inside to guard
he would be the tallest interior linemen in the league. He is built to play tackle and did decent which for a rookie is a good thing.
line
There’s a lot that we don’t know about the line. Two things that surprised me – PFF had our line rated as one of the worst in the league. And the area they scored worst in was run blocking – ranked worst in the league, by far. A huge gap between us and #31 Indianapolis. If that’s true, imagine how good the zone read could be with better run blocking.
Beadles and Walton were the two lowest-rated players, but everyone scored below par. I don’t know what it all means. Some of it might be reacting to a new scheme of course, but there might also be some bad coaching, or talent mismatched to scheme, or just some really bad players. On top of that, Clady had a very bad year according to them. Maybe we should be hoping he had some sort of secret injury, and that a surgery will be coming soon.
Or PFF doesn't know what they're talking about
1+1 always equals 2!
Worst in the league run blocking + most rushing yards gained in no way equals two. Too many people try to rank linemen individually as opposed to ranking them as a unit. These guys have individual weaknesses that are abundantly clear, but as a unit, they get the job done. That’s really all that counts. I’ll take the yards over PFF ratings everytime. These guys are young and they are improving. Continuity is going to help those guys more than shaking up the line up.
"You’re only great if you win something. I mean, Alexander wasn’t Alexander the Mediocre or Alexander the Average. He was Alexander the Great, and there’s a reason for it."-Shannon Sharpe
well
Yes, it’s definitely possible that PFF doesn’t know what they’re talking about, but if you go read their (public) page about how they measure their stats, it’s pretty impressive, and it’s been recognized as such by those in the position to confirm it.
As for the rushing… worst in the league run blocking + most rushing yards gained can equal two if you mix in a couple of other factors. Denver had 546 rushing attempts (I believe that includes qb scrambles) in the regular season, and that’s a LOT. Second, Tebow and McGahee might actually be really good at rushing despite a poor offensive line.
I’m also in favor of giving these guys the benefit of the doubt given that 3/5 of the line has never actually even had a proper offseason. However, I’m a little more open (than I used to be) to considering the possibility that they might also be bad.
That is a valid point
But that tells us what we already know: This team was better equipped to run the ball for a miriad of reasons, one of which was the line. Another factor is teams knew we were going to run and sold out to stop it. It’s a safe bet that the Broncos faced more stacked boxes than most any other offense in the league. It’s very tough sledding to block everyone when you have 8 or 9 in the box, which probably factors into the poor showing on PFF just a bit. You don’t succesfully run on an 8 or 9 man front without getting some decent blocks, and the Broncos did just that, time and again. A sucessful run game always hinges on the play of the line unless you have Barry Sanders back there.
By most accounts, Magazu is one hell of an Oline coach. These guys are going to be alright. Give em an actual offseason and see where they end up before pulling the plug on anyone. Moving someone out or over at this point is only going to set things back.
"You’re only great if you win something. I mean, Alexander wasn’t Alexander the Mediocre or Alexander the Average. He was Alexander the Great, and there’s a reason for it."-Shannon Sharpe
good questions all
my eyes tell me this:
franklin was bad at protecting the blind side of our qb, and that is the reason he is injured right now. for the life of me i can’t figure out why we didn’t give him more help(te/rb/chip) in pass-protection, it was killing us steadily. only team in the league with this issue, and it’s big. either he improves a whole lot there, or he needs to be moved somewhere before game 1. flipping with clady would provide the best short/long-term reults, but do we go all in? i doubt it. i think we might have a problem here, i’m not seeing the lateral movement for this road-grader. another reason to run the ball, though, he is a beast.
beadles and walton do some things real well, but just don’t have good size/strength for the interior. i know, they are meant to move, etc., but in short-yardage/between the tackles(no option), and protection, they get moved around too much. zane is especially weak, here. i don’t know how much that can improve, but him and franklin need help if we want to pass more. one may have to go or move for us to take the next step in the passing game. pressure up the middle just ended the seasons of aaron rodgers and drew brees, so it is not ok for us, either.
i have no major problems with clady or kuper at all. franklin i really hope improves where he is, or moves, we really need to lock down that side better. i’m not sure about walton and beadles, they remind me too much of weigman and hamilton in their last year. if we’re not zone-blocking/pulling, they can be more of a liability. honestly, i would like a bigger interior that blocks better in both attacks. this line does open up some potential for leading the option, zb, and wrinkles in the running game. i just don’t feel we are going to do that, and teams will be blitzing us now.
as far as being crowned the best OL in football, well, you saw the pats game, right? they were dominated and confused against the #32-ranked defense, for you stats people. running for his life from the snap is how i put it. any qb had no chance. we discovered in the lions game that we cannot fend off an attacking defense with a rookie qb and raw receivers. so, we ran. i say we should devote more resources to the line, because it is all about the o-line. upgrade 1 position a year for continuity, which we have already started. let’s start with a lg/c prospect.
taste my blintzkrieg!
the 3-man rush is an admission of lunacy, cowardice, and defeat.
I agree with a lot of what you said dave, but I also think that if Tebow will develop into a 'porthole' passer instead of a livingroom picture window passer they will be better.
Timing is of essence with the OLine.
"You hate to think you have to censor your language to meet other people's lack of understanding" -Julian Bond
Follow @bfree2bronc
I like to leave these decisions to the coaches
they usually do whatever they want anyway. I have not noticed them listening to us anyway. LOL
Playoffs!?!? Playoffs!?!? Don't talk about Playoffs!! Playoffs?!?!
That's no fun though...It's better to debate and hope...LOL
"You hate to think you have to censor your language to meet other people's lack of understanding" -Julian Bond
Follow @bfree2bronc
I know it was more of a joke post
I would love if the team could be coached by fan voting though. It would be fun to try for a couple years.
Playoffs!?!? Playoffs!?!? Don't talk about Playoffs!! Playoffs?!?!
They should listen to us
If they listened to more random internet talk, it is entirely possible that Broncos would be playing football today.
ideal pick...
So our ideal pick at #25… is Center Peter Konz…from Wsconsin.
INSTANT UPGRADE!!!
Don’t laugh to hard…. but an excellent pick if he is still available… at #25
Whoever said life was short...was stupid!!
Life is the longest thing we will experience!!
NO WAY
JD Walton is developing!
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by Fabio Broncos on Feb 4, 2012 8:22 AM MST up reply actions
I would not hate drafting Konz or Glenn at #25
Walton and Beadles are definately our weak link on the line.
"Vegetarians are cool. All I eat are vegetarians - except for the occasional mountain lion steak "
Ted Nugent
A lot of guys here know I'm in this bandwagon
However, I don’t think NOW is the time do it. I think we need 1 more year to evaluate it properly.
First of all, nobody here had a full offseason to improve. It makes a big difference when we think a rookie was just put there to play in preseason without enough previous coaching. If we watch Franklin’s 1st game and last game, oh there is a huge improvement there. The kid made a great job, besides not losing any game due to injuries.
I do think he can be a pro bowler LG, but I’m not sold on that yet. We need more info about his possible development as a tackle, and about at what position we need to look (Guard or Tackle) to improve our OL. I think this next season will be crucial to decide it.
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Just another add
I think Zane Beadles would be the best 6th OLineman in the NFL!!
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by Fabio Broncos on Feb 4, 2012 8:06 AM MST up reply actions
For the early part of next year
Franklin will likely be taking over for Kuper. I think it is highly unlikely that Kup will be ready to start the season – maybe bye week

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