So here's an "I agree post" for you.

I think loyalty is important, especially when it comes to a sport that, probably more than any, NEEDS the entire team to work together.  But I cannot for the life of me figure out why Shanny treats a holdout or re-negotiator like Brutus but it's okay for a vetran to constantly hurt the team's chances by being on the field at all.  

If these guys are good enough to take up roster space for the Broncos then cut em loose and let the damn Detroit Lions have them.

I think some of us Bronco fans have come to the conclusion we are a rebuilding team.  The Base for a good team is there, but we have got to stop trying to win the Superbowl every year with vetran has beens and never was-es.  Get some young talent around Cutler.  And younger vets on the Defense

Was DJ Williams really worth taking over Steven Jackson?

In fact, excellent enough of a comment to make the front page!  Good calls!

I don't think we are really in too much disagreement on some points.  My optimism is focused very narrowly.  I don't want people to give up on a season that is only (just) under the halfway mark when we are only one game back in our division race.  I'll break down where I agree and disagree.

OFFENSE

On offense, consider that we have played some of the best teams in the NFL stacked into our schedule so far and that our offense has been able to get to the redzone numerous times.  Let's look at how these teams are ranked based on if the playoffs were held today (tiebreaks included).

INDY - ranked 1st in the NFL.

GB - ranked 2nd in the NFC; 4th in the NFL.

JAX - ranked 3rd in the AFC.

PITT - ranked 4th in the AFC.

SD - ranked 7th in the AFC after a late start that began against DEN.

You would be right to say that points are all that matter, but we ARE moving the ball pretty darned well, and we're doing it against the elite teams that we've had the misfortune to be scheduled against.

Walker played like a stud last year, so I don't think this injury was related to his stint in GB.  Let's not give up on the guy.  Stokely is a career slot receiver filling on for Walker as our number one WR and getting the job done pretty well.  Marshall is a young guy with a lot of talent just like anyone you might bring in if you blew up the roster, and his play at #2 has been solid.  And let's not forget Martinez, who had a good night.

At running back Henry was a great fit that stabbed us in the back.  Yes, he's gone.  But Young looked good last night against an elite run stopping team (you can tell from Coach's after game comments that he was immpressed, and that the blown call that brough back Young's long run was bogus).  And I wrote before the game that Bell should have had the start, not Hall.  Bell is a solid back-up.  Sapp is also good.

Cutler is a stud who moves us down the field too, even though the redzone is cursed.  Why give him a pass?  Shouldn't we drop him too?  No, of course not.  He's doing his job like the rest of the offense, just not getting over the redzone monster.  In that sense he's no different than the other players on offense getting critical remarks.

And the TEs are excellent.  Sure Scheff specializes, but he has been an excellent target for Cutler, and not bad in blocking.  Graham has been good in receiving, but we aren't giving him too many chances because he is so excellent in blocking (and he's contributing to our banged up o-line).

I don't change a thing on this offense, except to add some depth to the o-line.

DEFENSE

Believe it or not, we agree on some things here.  I am critical of a lot of things on defense, but might modifiy your points a little.

Our CBs are good but the window is closing.  Our CBs are probably the best to ever be paired together.  CB is a tough position to play.  Get burned once in a game (as both Bailey and Bly did) and people focus on that.  People forget their pro-bowl status and their insane interception numbers (even when QBs avoid throwing them the ball).  No, we keep these guys.  Maybe when Bailey is in the last year of his contract and we can't afford to renew we trade for a first round pick.  I don't see why Bly wouldn't "age well".  He got burned once, and played recovering from a seperated shoulder.  He's been doing well.  We came into this game the league's best pass defense, so don't give up on our corners.

We agree 100% on the safeties.  Lynch HAS become a glorified LB.  Ferguson hasn't shown us anything.  and you're right that we have no depth at the position.  That's why I've advocated safety as the number one or number two draft concern for this team.  With excellent safeties both of those TD passes would have been held to long gains.

Why let Williams off of the hook?  Because he might get better?  Vets Bailey and Bly already get this team a number 1 pass defense and it sounds like you're worried about their future?  I expected Williams to click by the GB game.  He did well against PITT, but now we're back to several players being dragged by a RB for several yards.  Either put Williams back on the outside position where he excelled, or put a lot of the blame on his shoulders until he performs.

I share your dissapointment in Gold.  He used to be a stud, and I was thrilled when we got him back from (wasn't it TB?).  His speed used to allow him to cover anyone (even WRs) and to cover for the rare mistake.  But he's not tackling now.  But heck, who is?  Webster is just a question mark.  He sucks when everyone else does, but played great against PITT.  LB (along with safety) is the other position I advocate for draft help.

At DE we did well in the game we started the rookies and Doom (PITT).  Why we don't stick to them I don't know.  Rice didn't show me anything last night.  Let those young guys play.

And we agree at DT.  I just don't know how to solve the issue there.  We've drafted AND gone after big names in FA and we still suck in the center of the DEF line.

We improved with ST when we put Martinez in to return.  Here again I was frustrated.  We had several people do returns, but only Martinez did well.  STICK WITH MARTINEZ ON RETURNS!

You can say that Elam and Saurbrun are getting old, but you can be old at those positions.  Elam is the reason we aren't 0-7 right now, and Saurbrun was aiming kicks inside the ten pretty well last night.  Don't let them go until they retire.  That's standard for Ks and Ps.

I don't think your post was ridiculous, personal, nor rambling.  You make solid points.  We ARE near the bottom in terms of point differentials, and at the end of the game only points matter.

But I also believe that at the end of the season the only thing that matters is the number of wins in your column, and we are only one game back.  One game back in our division despite playing:

• Three of the top four teams in the AFC
  
• The 2nd best NFC team

...and losing four games.

This tells me that we need to shoot for the playoffs this year (and we'll get an early elimination), and to make some solid moves in the offseason.  I just wouldn't jettisison some of the players you might.

One last point.  Some teams start strong and finish weak, and some teams start weak and finish strong.  We are a team that has shown we can pick up yards on offense and stop the pass.  We are only a rush defense from having a turnaround in the second half of the season.

Again, excellent post.

with your comment that we are closer to the bottom of the barrel than to the cream of the crop.  It is funny to hear Bronco fans talk about an 8-8 team like they are completely worthless.  Bring a tear to my eye to see that I am not the only Broncomaniac out there that has such high expectations.

I agree with you that we are not a good football team, but we are not worthless either.  We are AVERAGE!  8-8 is average.  4-12 would be awful.

Keep in mind that TD was ignored by every single team all the way into the 6th round!  Selvin Young was only ignored one round longer than that. ;)  One thing I didn't like last night from that young man was his red zone play.  That and it seemed he was either tackled for a big loss or a big gainer.  

We lost this game on three critical plays.  The fumble at the one yard line, the horrible holding call on the big Selvin Young run, and the disgustingly inaccurate pass to Brandon Marshall in the end zone at the end of the game.  All three of those plays would have resulted in a Bronco victory in my opinion.

Things are not as bad as you think they are.  Look at how many NEW faces we got on Offense and Defense...this year is a "Let's get to know each other" year.  Next year we will be much closer to the cream of the crop.  Have faith brother!

I hate to pick on the greatest corner alive, but didn't Indy do just that throwing to (of all people) Dallas Clark while Bailey was in coverage?  Wasn't that James Jones that blew by him for one of GB's scores?  Don't get me wrong, he's still one of the best (if not the very best) but he's certainly not up to par.  The fact that we have to put him out there on an island, even at substainally less than 100%, is a testament to how bad our depth at the position and our safeties are.  I'm not saying move the man to safety next week or even next year, I just think the shift might come sooner than some would think.  I actually believe that he could/will make that transition successfully because he has a lot of the attributes most corners lack; the man can tackle, has an excellent football IQ and is a team leader.

I hate to be all gloom-and-doom (the fact that we had just lost a heartbreaker didn't help) but I prefer to err on the side of pessimism.  I'd rather embrace rebuilding, even if it's not entirely necessary, than advocate for our current strategy (a combination of contending and rebuilding that I like to call pretending) for another second.  Maybe it would be best if Shanny relinquished his GM title and focused, along with his coaches, on game-planning and player developement.  Let someone else take over the grand scheme, even though it should be someone that Shanny could have mutual respect with.  Sometimes you're too close to a project to see the flaws and I fear that might be the case for our head coach and this team.  The Denver Broncos have not been a franchise of mediocrity, at least not in the Shanahan era, but I fear we might be sliding in that direction.  It's time for a change, is what I'm saying; maybe not one so dramatic as I may have implied above, but a big one nonetheless.  Allow me to butcher a classic Thomas Jefferson quote so as to defend myself: question with boldness even the very direction of your beloved franchises; because they should more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fanaticism.

But I'll take Shanny's approach.

I like a coach who has winning seasons year after year, and is always a contender for the playoffs in a very tough divsion.  When you've had two SBs and the number of playoff appearances of Shanny you shouldn't fix what isn't broke.

As long as you have a shot at the playoffs you have a shot at making it to the SB.  Don't forget that there are 31 other teams out there, and most of them don't have anything at all like what we've had in terms of success with Mike, and the way Mike has done things.

Last year everyone was cheering when we kept other teams from scoring any TDs the first part of the season.  Then the defense fell apart and everyone gets mad.  This year we entered the season with what looked like an all star cast during offseason pick-ups and everyone got excited again.  But everyone got upset because they forgot that we also had a large influx of new players, people playing at new positions (Williams), and a new coordinator.

I guess I feel that so many fans are so high and low on this team and it bounces back and forth (manic-depressive maybe).  Coach stays steady and keeps plugging and I like that approach.  It pays off most years when we have a shot at the postseason.  We will NOT be a SB team most years.  It just doesn't work that way.  But Mike gives us a shot.  I prefer the partnership that Mike has with Ted Sundquist in the offseason.  Ted is another reason why I feel our team does so well most years.

I believe that a look at Denver's record against the rest of the division in terms of playoff appearences and interdivision wins since the arrival of Mike shows a favorable rating.