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Backyard Scouting

My personal feeling is that when it comes to scouting, you need to know your backyard better than you know anything else.  Once your home turf is locked down, you can branch out.  In the case of the Denver Broncos, that home turf is the state of Colorado.  This topic has been on my mind for a very long time, and is often discussed amongst my friends.  Nearly every time, the Broncos miss out.  Players get pinched from our main scouting region and go on to play very well elsewhere.  To my mind, Pittsburgh is the most egregious offender, but it isn't their fault--they've always drafted well--the Broncos as an organization simply let them poach whom they wanted without a fight.  With that said, I'd like to take a look at the universities in Colorado producing NFL-caliber talent over the past few years: CSU, CU, UNC, and the USAFA.

Disclaimer: each school name below links to their NFL alumni listing on Sportsline, not to the institutional homepage.  Also, I didn't do deep, deep research that took into account draft order of each round.  Instead, I substituted each on one-to-one basis for the sake of brevity and clarity.  That is to say, each player might not necessarily have been draftable with Denver's pick, although in most cases, they were.  Let it also be said, I didn't quite have time to take a look at Wyoming (Chukwurah drafted by Vikings), although they are certainly in our backyard radius.

Colorado State University
Ah yes, the Rams, beloved team of one of the finest party schools in our great nation.  It's amazing that they manage to turn out solid NFL players, but perhaps we have Sonny Lubick to thank for that, or, at the very least, his staff.

+ Joey Porter, LB (Draft: 1999 - 3rd round (12th pick) by the Pittsburgh Steelers): not a whole lot to say about Joey besides "concrete is undefeated."  Sure, he's a bit broken down now, but he was dominant for a good stretch and won a Super Bowl.

Broncos' 1999 3rd Round Picks: Travis McGriff and Chris Watson.  Excuse me, but I have to go throw up now.

+ Clark Haggans, OLB/DE (Draft: 2000 - 5th round (8th pick) by the Pittsburgh Steelers): versatile, tough, character guy that has made some very big plays in his time. It goes without saying that both Porter and Haggans were Colorado cornerstones (the third will be named in the UNC section) of the defense that won the SB for Pittsburgh.  

Broncos' 2000 5th Round Pick: Muneer Moore.  Ugh.  I really needn't continue here.  Roll the next slide for the love of god.

Broncos' CSU alums on roster: Pears and Sapp.

Interesting to note: the Texans have four CSU alums on their roster, though two seem to be projects (Anderson, Brisiel), and it was five prior to the cutting of Van Pelt.  Does Kubes do his homework, or is he relying on the Shanny-style FA-project model?  Time will tell.

The University of Colorado at Boulder
For a bigger school playing in a bigger conference with a bigger reputation, CU hasn't managed to turn out consistent NFL players like Porter and Haggans.  Kordell Stewart, anyone?  How about Rashaan Salaam?  However, we must press on to the quality products from Buffaloville.

+ Mason Crosby, K (Draft: 2007 - 6th round (19th pick) by the Green Bay Packers):  I cannot express in words how disappointed I was to see Crosby go somewhere other than Denver after slipping in the draft (projected third round), especially when Shanny natters on and on about the field position game every week (hell, we already carry a `Kick Off Specialist,' why not grab a real kicker to replace Elam in the next couple years?), and The Cros© led the NCAA in touchbacks.  I was personally in attendance when dude booted one through the friggin uprights on a kickoff.  Good one, Shanny.  Couldn't spare an '08 fifth rounder for the second coming of Elam, eh?  Yes, he is that special, in my opinion.  Long story short, Crosby was the best kicker in the league (141 points) as a rookie!  He'll have more than that next season as he ups his percentage, and, sadly, he will have a very, very long career of making Green Bay happy and me nauseated.  Et tu Shanny?

Broncos' 2007 6th Round Pick: None.

Two linemen that don't seem to fit our scheme (I don't think so anyway, but I'll defer to HT on this one) but have done very well are Andre Gurode, C (Draft: 2002 - 2nd round (5th pick) by the Dallas Cowboys) and Chris Naeole, G (Draft: 1997 - 1st round (10th pick) by the New Orleans).  Missing out on these guys doesn't really bother me, as they were high selections and the picks used in those years by the Broncos were for Pryce and Portis, so I have no complaints there.  All the same, they seem solid pros by all accounts.

Broncos' CU alums on roster: Lepsis (Retired), Graham (via NE), Sykes (Medical Ret.), and Fenton.

The University of Northern Colorado
Long a Division II powerhouse (back-to-back national championships in 1996 and 1997), UNC made the jump to I-AA and joined the Big Sky conference in 2006.  They play great football up in Greeley, and some hidden gems have emerged from the school.

+ Vincent Jackson, WR (Draft: 2005 - 2nd round (29th pick) by the San Diego): Leave it to A.J. Smith to jump the gun and pick the guy he wants long before the run should have been made (see also: what he gave up in trade to draft Weddle in `07), but he knows his players and VJ is going to be a good one that will sadly torment us for years to come.  He's only going to get better, and Chambers's arrival definitely takes the pressure off his development.

Broncos' 2005 2nd Round Pick: Darrent Williams.  A pick that cannot be faulted.

+ Aaron Smith, DE (Draft: 1999 - 4th round (14th pick) by the Pittsburgh Steelers): Are we sensing a theme here?  Pittsburgh knows our backyard better than we do, and three players from that Super Bowl winning team came from Colorado schools.

Broncos' 1999 4th Round Pick: Olandis Gary.  Great for the scheme, crap for the future.

+ Reed Doughty, FS (Draft: 2006 - 6th round (4th pick) by the Washington Redskins):  Stepped in to fill Sean Taylor's shoes this year.  Might have earned himself a starting gig next season.

Broncos' 2006 6th Round Pick: Greg Eslinger.  I liked this pick at the time.  I liked it less when we got burned by Cleveland and we are in need of a ballhawking, coverage safety.

So, who might be some up-and-comers from UNC this year?  These guys.

The United States Air Force Academy
I just had to chuck the good ol' AFA in there.  I've got a big spot in my heart for Fisher DeBerry football.  In fact, I nearly shed a tear when Jay ran the option and pitched out to Selvin Young for his first pro touchdown against KC earlier this year.

+ Bryce Fisher (Draft: 1999 - 7th round (42nd pick) by the Buffalo Bills): Not the most consistent player, but a great character guy, which the Broncs seem to be lacking lately.  He did have 8.5 sacks in `04, and 9.0 sacks in '05--decent return for a seventh round flyer--and he's still in the league with Tennessee.

Broncos' 1999 7th Round Picks: Billy Miller and Justin Swift.

Final Evaluation: It must be said that on the evidence above, it doesn't look good from a backyard scouting standpoint.  In fact, it looks incredibly poor.  Let it be said, however, that the last two drafts were very good for the Broncos, but I still think they need to know our backyard better.  Of late, Shannahan and his staff seem predisposed to rely on undrafted free agents (see also: every single Bronco I named above!  Except for Bradley Van Pelt, of course, who was a compensatory 7th rounder) from our backyard, rather than to spend a pick on the better players there.  It might be hubris (or the need-based drafting model) that keeps us from drafting these players where we should.  But it is more than obvious that we missed out on some key occasions, and judging on this evidence, it looks for the immediate future, that we will continue to.

Poll
How well does the Broncos' scouting staff know their own backyard?
Very good. No gems slip by.
0 votes
Good. They hit more than they miss.
0 votes
Average. The undrafted FAs make up for the misses.
1 votes
Poor. Would you explain to me again how we missed out on Porter, Haggans, and Smith?
7 votes

8 votes | Poll has closed

This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR

Comment 12 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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I think it is more than just a...
backyard issue.  Lately, the Rams, Buffs and UNC have not had a great pool of talent.

For Porter and Haggans, I don't know if they would fit a 4-3 defense.  Smith on the other hand would have been a good fit as a DE in any defense.

Hopeful for a much better 2008!

by mdierk on Jan 21, 2008 2:57 PM MST reply actions  

On the whole...
I am inclined to agree with you on the talent pool, MD.  I lack for an explanation other than the Broncos don't deem some of these guys worthy of draft picks, and would rather pray for them to slide into the FA market, which the best ones haven't.  I think it's worth mentioning again that barring Van Pelt, the Broncos haven't drafted a single player from these schools.  It's a question of draftable players.  However, with Lubick finally ousted at CSU and with Steve Fairchild (former OC for the Buffalo Bills) and some old assistants coming back to take over the program, I expect them to be churning out more NFL-ready players within the next two years.

That said, Jackson will come good, as will Crosby.  They are showing strong signs already.  Granted, VJ was a high pick, but Crosby wasn't.  Hell, we used a 3rd rounder on Elam back in the day and that was still a steal.  Technically speaking, Haggans, Smith, Doughty (jury still out), and Porter (marginally) were all lower round picks.

Re: Haggans, I hear you there as well, and you're most likely right as he seems to be a tweener, though an ideal fit for the PIT D.  However, we differ on Porter.  It's just my uneducated opinion but I think that Joey could easily have slotted in as an OLB in a 4-3.  Slower line to line than Ian Gold, sure, but he has great instincts, great tackling skills, and is not a huge liability in coverage.  That's not even mentioning his sacking ability, though those numbers were helped by the scheme, it must be said.

by ArturoBandini on Jan 21, 2008 3:35 PM MST up reply actions  

I do think that the...
talent pool will be much improved at both CU and CSU with new coaches.  Hawkins has made tremendous progress with cleaning up still in the works.  Man did Barnett make a mess there!

Fairchild will have a good basis to grab talent in the next couple of years.

I also think that backyard should include Rocky Mountain region. Wyoming (though they have not done well), the Utah schools, Idaho (Boise State) and New Mexico(maybe they have another Urlacher there).

There are gems out there...it's hoping that Shanny and Co. get the right ones.  It's time to find the real gold instead of fool's gold (2001-2004 drafts).

Hopeful for a much better 2008!

by mdierk on Jan 21, 2008 3:55 PM MST up reply actions  

Here's hoping...
Neuhiesel didn't do CU any favors either, but Barnett really tanked them.  I agree with you on Fairchild.  He was there during all their bowl successes and he bleeds gold and green.  He should be great for them and will widen the recruiting net.

Expanding the backyard: I agree, in theory.  Although it is much tougher to get someone out to Utah all the time, than it is to send them up the road to Fort Collins, Greeley, or Boulder by car.  That said, you're right there are some gems from that area, most specifically Chris Cooley and Kevin Curtis (both Utah State 3rd rounders), though Utah seems to be getting more than adequate attention since Steve Smith's emergence (Alex Smith, Andre Dyson, and Eric Weddle were all high picks).  In fairness, we did draft Jeb Putzier from Boise, but he didn't end up being as strong as Scheff.

by ArturoBandini on Jan 21, 2008 8:29 PM MST up reply actions  

Watch for CU's..
Jordan Dizon in the Senior Bowl.  Could be an effective OLB.
Hopeful for a much better 2008!

by mdierk on Jan 21, 2008 4:48 PM MST up reply actions  

Good call.
I think Terrence Wheatley (teeny, tiny DB) is supposed to be going too.  I'll have to check it out this weekend.

by ArturoBandini on Jan 21, 2008 8:31 PM MST up reply actions  

Dizon
From Scouts, Inc. (ESPN):

"Colorado OLB Jordon Dizon is an impressive player. He is a better pure football player than long-term prospect, but he reads plays extremely well and rarely takes false steps. He seems to always be around the football. Dizon should be an instant contributor on special teams as a rookie and could potentially bring more to the table than just special teams value if he gets in a defense that can cover him up and allow him to use his recognition skills."

He sounds like the anti-Webster! =)

by ArturoBandini on Jan 24, 2008 8:45 AM MST up reply actions  

What about the Broncos opinion
of Brian Clady (Boise State)...  I agree with Mdierk that we can't ignore utah, nevada, NM and of course, my beloved BSU...Idaho also has the Vandals which gave an O-lineman to the current Colts lineup (I think).

Clady could definitely be available at #12, so if Philips were gone and we passed on Clady, how much would we regret the decision?  (Remember all that Harris has a history of back problems.  Would anybody be surprised if he were to play one year and then never play football again?)

Love the angle on the article, btw.  Solid, solid idea, and nice execution!

by Jeremy Bolander on Jan 21, 2008 10:08 PM MST reply actions  

Clady
I haven't come to a final, personal decision on Clady.  However, I'm starting to lean towards the decision that he is a rare, 1st round pick that could meet the Denver ZB scheme.  I dismissed him earlier in the year looking at him, but the more I'm studying, the more I see the potential for a good fit.  It looks to me like he is noted for having quick feet.  If so, he can lose weight and pick up endurance training to meet the scheme.

I still wouldn't take him though.  Even without Lepsis, we have Harris (who looks excellent if you buy what the team is putting out to the public), and Pears (whom you agree is good and improving).  I think we can get an OT or two for depth later in the draft, while DT/SAF/OLB remain our biggest needs.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Jan 21, 2008 10:54 PM MST up reply actions  

My opinion
Is that if Clady, or any OL, can step in an be absolutely dominant (see also: Joe Thomas, from fishing on draft day to the Pro Bowl, just like that) then they are worthy of the pick.  I don't know much about Clady, and I think OL in general are pretty tough to evaluate, even for the pro scouts, as a number of misses attest.  Although as a position it seems to be one of the more reliable ones, taking into account the entire draft rather than the first round.

To answer your question, Styg.  There are three Idaho players in the League currently:

http://sportsline.com/collegefootball/alumni-tracker/school/4843

by ArturoBandini on Jan 22, 2008 10:03 AM MST up reply actions  

Great job Arturo
...and congrats on the front pager!

I confess that I don't know enough about Gurode and Naeole to know if they would fit the Denver scheme or not.

On the other hand, Porter would be a solid 4-3 OLB in our system, and Haggens (while being solid at OLB) would fit as a 4-3 OLB in many places, but less so in Denver (in my opinion).

I don't know how much scouting a pro team devotes to it's own backyard.  I know the fans have an investment in the college "home field", but I honestly don't know if the pros do.  I also don't know what the needs of the team where on a year to year basis without looking deeper into it.

But I like the point of your story.  We have missed on talent that could have been a car ride away to look at.  It seems to me that scouting your own backyard would be easier.  "Hey coach!  Ride with me over to CU's practice today.  You won't believe this kid I've been watching!"

Terrific job!

 

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Jan 21, 2008 11:05 PM MST reply actions  

Cheers, HT.
I didn't get the chance to thank TSG because I can't post on my own diary, but thanks for giving me the opportunity.

Again, I don't know much when it comes to trench play, but it seems to me Gurode and Naeole are more man-to-man guys whose primary duty is take to take on a rusher and hold the line.

I agree with you on the emphasis, or lack thereof, pro teams give to their backyards.  It seems minimal, and there are certainly arguments to support such a policy.  With that said, however, it seems mad not to go see teams in person when they are so close.  Why not take every opportunity available to enrich the franchise?  That's my stance.

Awesome to hear you agree on Porter.  Would he have put up the same gaudy numbers in our system?  I highly doubt it.  But would he have made us better and blown up more than his share of RBs, WRs, and TEs?  Hell, yes.

by ArturoBandini on Jan 22, 2008 9:58 AM MST up reply actions  

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