JaMarcus Russell 'Better' Than Jay Cutler?? Puuhhhhlllleeeeaase!!
by John Bena on Feb 14, 2008 6:59 AM MST
in Strictly My Opinion
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PrintSometimes Raider fans make me laugh. I mean, really, really laugh....Alot.
In this post, Saint, who runs Silver and Black Pride begins his Top-10 Reasons for Raider fans to be excited for 2008 with his #1 reason - JaMarcus Russell. While that in itself isn't that crazy, it's a comment he makes within the realm of his explanation that caught my attention --
2008 would have been the year that he came out of college had he stayed at LSU. Do you think that Miami would be drooling all over their BIG TUNA if he were available?
There is NO DOUBT in my mind that JaMarcus would have been chosen #1 overall this year if he'd have stayed in school and he is BY FAR the best QB taken since the 2004 draft, which produced, Philip Rivers, Eli Manning and Ben Roethlisberger. Jay Cutler and Alex Smith just AREN'T as good as these four.
Two of those quarterbacks have already won Super Bowls, Big Ben and Eli, while Rivers has led his team to the playoffs in consecutive years and could have been facing off against Eli this year, had he and LT been healthy in the AFC Championship.
Where to begin?? Did he actually put Alex Smith and Jay Cutler in the same sentence??
Second, to say JaMarcus Russell is, without a doubt, the best quarterback drafted since 2004 is just plain dumb. Let's look at the numbers --
First, here are Jay's stats from his rookie season --
Next, here are Russell's numbers from his action in 2007 --
Ummmmm....not even close.
Ok, so what about in college?? Russell was the #1 overall pick. He should have been a much better college QB than Jay, right??
Here are Jay's stats from Vandy --
And now, Russell's --
Ummmmm, alot closer than expected.
In fact, when you consider the talent that Russell had around him, and that the two played in the SAME CONFERENCE, against the SAME COMPETITION, there is no question about who the better quarterback is. I mean, everyone talks about how great of an athlete Russell is, but it was Cutler that ran for over 1250 yards and 17 TD's in college.
Hey, I can't blame Saint, or any raiders fan, for hanging their hopes and dreams to JaMarcus Russell. Do they have a choice? If Russell turns into another Todd Marinovich, the raiders will be irrelevant for another 5 years. I tend to believe that's the case anyway, as long as the walking corpse is running things. The point is, if you are going to make a BOLD statement like "Jay Cutler and Alex Smith just AREN'T as good as....JaMarcus Russell", and put him in the same group as two Super Bowl winning QBs, with numbers like what we see above, something a little better than blind optimism to back it up would be appreciated!
Face it, raider-nation, the corpse choked 25 years ago with Elway and he choked again when he passed on Cutler. Here's to another 20 years of 0 Super Bowl wins and 4-12 seasons....
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Raiduh fans are delusional...
I'd pick Jay Cutler over JaMarcus every time.
I knew that the faders drank...
I don't think they are drinking booze,
Dont't forget:
But hey, let's not make this a competition of namin most fader-chokes - we could be here all night!
by Claaaaas on Feb 14, 2008 12:00 PM MST reply actions
What's Up Guru?
If JaMarcus Russell had stayed in school he would have been the #1 pick again this year. Fact.
JaMarcus is 2 years and 4 months younger that Jay "Soon To Be Perennial 88 QB rating" Cutler.
Let's take a look at JaMarcus's "Rookie Effort" GAME BY GAME...
He made his debut against Denver and he looked pretty good, completing 4-7 passes for 56 yards. It's a small sample size, but not bad for someone who missed all of camp AND was barely 22 years old.
In limited play against Indy he was 2-4 for 10 yards...
Against Jacksonville the ENTIRE team got destroyed!!! Russell was 7-23 for a mere 83 yards. he also threw 3 picks. I recall at one point he had the worst rating I'd ever seen.
Even though things were going against him and the BUZZ SAW that was Jacksonville at the end of the season, remember they sat their starters on the last weekend, the coaches left him out there to get punched in the mouth. Unlike many starters that I've seen fold under that kind of pressure, JaMarcus bounced back and led a touchdown drive on his final drive of the day. I felt that on that drive he grew up.
His ONLY start in 2007 came against a Charger team that started the day playing for a Home Playoff game. It was a playoff game for the Chargers.
In his first start, at 22 years of age, in a playoff atmosphere, he went 23-31 and led many drives into scoring territory. Unfortunately, a missed field goal, questionable fourth down gamble on 4th and 3 from the Charger 25 and a fumbled punt on the Charger 4 yard line cost him a shot at winning his first start, but I walked away VERY impressed.
By the way, the week before, against that same San Diego team, Jay Cutler was 14-32 for 155 yards, with 2 picks and 0 TDs.
The thing that sticks out the most to me about Cutler's rookie season is that he took the reigns of a 7-4 team that many thought would make the playoffs and managed to go 2-3 and lose out on the playoffs by an OT field goal to the Niners and Alex Smith.
This year he took that team to 7-9 while throwing 14 picks and 20 TDs. That takes them from a perennial playoff team to an 9-12 team that even the "Lowly Raiders" are looking forward to playing twice a year.
Heck, in two years, when JaMarcus Russell is 24 to start the season, I'd see 20 TDs and 14 picks as a failure.
Oh yeah, and another stat, that 163 college passer rating in his JUNIOR year, says a lot about how "High" I am on J-Russ.
The rivalry is BACK Guru, it will just take a couple of more years until we can compete with San Diego for the AFC West throne again.
For what it's worth, I do like Cutler more than Leinart or Young in the long term, but JaMarcus Russell IS, in my opinion, the best QB to come out since 2004.
by saint @ Mile High Report on Feb 14, 2008 12:56 PM MST reply actions
I never thought I'd see something like this...
Compare Cutler to other "Hall of Famers" in their first 24 games. Cutler destroys most and matches up well against the others.
The best you can do is compare JaMarcus to Eli Mannings rookie season. Sorry, but the jury is still out on wether Eli is a Hall of Famer...
As long as your walking corpse continues to screw up your organization, there will be no rivalry. Last years Raider upset over the Broncos was a once in 3 year thing. 2004 and last year. Be preparred to get all giddy again in 2010.
And by the way....
Why just pick the San Diego game as comparison? Why not pick the Jacksonville game as comparison?
We know why, because your whole theory about the two quarterbacks blows up in your face!!
Didn't Ty Detmer have a really high QB rating back in college? College don't mean jack, this is the NFL son.
Oh Boy...Who Let Mongo Out Of The Basement?
I'll stand by my statement...JaMarcus Russell would have been the #1 pick again this year and is the best QB to come out since 2006.
Time will tell if I'm right.
The fact that he is 2 years younger does mean something.
This season would be Cutler's rookie year at this age...How do you think Cutler would have done when he was barely 22 and missed the entire training camp?
For my money, playing teams in back to back weeks, is as close to a level playing field, barring major injuries, that you can have.
Not playing them 2 and a half months apart.
by saint @ Mile High Report on Feb 14, 2008 2:47 PM MST up reply actions
Try not to be so obvious
It's amusing to see a fade fan, such as yourself, taking a handful of games (half of them were utter failures...which is to be expected) to argue for Russell when Cutler has a season-and-a-half of solid to brilliant play to project from. Russell is raw potential, nothing more nothing less.
The fact that Jay's 2 years older is yet again, irrelevant. Jay came out as a senior with much more polish as opposed to Jamarcus who came out looking like a blood-red piece of meat. Jay's still very young when compared to other starting QB's in the league and he's playing better than most of them already.
As far as saying Roesthlisberger, Rivers, and Manning are all better players than Cutler....well, at least you can point to SB victories with two of them (but, obviously, you must take into account the talent surrounding them). It's not like these guys are at the end of the line, however. Roethlisberger can be good, Rivers is still yet to be seen, and Manning hasn't been a competent NFL quartberback for more than 4 or 5 games.
This is fun...
I'll have to get my brother
I have a suggestion...
I like arguing..
Raider Fans Give it up
At Least Jay Cutler can learn the effin play book...
I mean it must suck having a QB with a horrible IQ...Thats pretty much the reason he didnt play that much this season...
So Raider Fans take a back seat and enjoy another ten years of top ten draft picks...Shouldnt you guys be improving with all of these top draft picks i mean cmon....Raiders=Disgrace
When has being picked #1 been a sign of greatness?
Posted elsewhere...
I don't think this is a question of whether or not Russell will be a failure. Neither QB existed in a vaccuum either now or during their respective college careers. They both have different leadups to NFl football, different ways of approaching NFL football and different ways of playing NFL football.
I like the way Russell is getting himself ready. He probably isn't as cerebral as Cutler, but all that means is that he needs to approach preparation differently. He seems to be doing that, and his particular style is to just play it cool. Unlike Rivers, I think that is one aspect of both Cutler and Russell that will make The Rivalry even better down the line.
But it isn't Russell's failure or success that should be anyone's concern.
Worry about whether or not he is going to be RUINED. Cutler has a solid offensive staff, and one of the best QB molders in the game, in Shanahan. Kiffen is good for the faders, but that very fact probably means that Al won't stand for him for long. And if Kiffen sticks around, it will be because implicitly or explicitly he has come to accept the premises by which Davis runs the faders now, which by its nature means that Kiffen won't be running things right anymore... and Russell is caught in the middle of all this turmoil.
The good news for the faders is that RUINING a young, talented, humble QB is just the sort of thing that should be a reality check for Al Davis. 1st round tackles can be swept under the rug. Years of 1st day picks on defense can be put into perspective in a tough, offensive minded division.
But ruining your first honest chance to be a competitor in the AFC West and the NFL since falling from grace, can only be what it is, and nothing more.
A failure.
by Jeremy Bolander on Feb 14, 2008 8:15 PM MST reply actions
My 0.02 Dollars.
Moreover, stats alone don't tell the whole story. How a coach uses a player/position and their teammates has as much to do with their success as their talent does. Stats help tell the story, but they don't contain it all. Scouting and projectability has a lot to do with it.
Now on to the matter at hand: Jay Cutler v. Jamarcus Russell. Knowing what we know now, if you placed all of the QBs drafted since 2004 into a single pool, who do you think would get picked first? You'd be hard-pressed to convince me that Jay wouldn't be the most popular choice among NFL scouts and the like. In fact, even if you added in that 2004 class, I think he'd have a solid shot at getting the highest ranking there as well. Does anyone really think that Cutler couldn't take the Chargers to the AFC Championship Game or the Giants to the Super Bowl in 2007? I'm sure he could do the same for the world-champion Steelers during their run to the title. Jay Cutler is the better QB now, then and always. That's not Broncos bravado, it's just reasonable objectivity.
Well said!
And BTW - i'm not on Phyllis's bandwagon yet! I think he has a lot to prove, allthough this post-season made him (and his recievers) look better!
by Claaaaas on Feb 15, 2008 4:50 AM MST up reply actions
Phyllis' receivers
If we can get our D-line to generate some pressure, I know just the thing to slow 'em down, though: some Champ 'n Bly. Stir in a little HamzaGRRRR and we've got a recipe for success.
by Jeremy Bolander on Feb 15, 2008 6:59 AM MST up reply actions
Phyllis?
Rivers went out to play the Pats six days after arthroscopic surgery; Phyllis seems an odd sobriquet. And what does it say about Cutler and the Broncos that they are getting beaten like a red headed step child by a Phyllis?
by Brian @ Mile High Report on Feb 15, 2008 10:45 PM MST up reply actions
Phyllis has nothing to do with it
by Silverblood on Feb 15, 2008 11:04 PM MST up reply actions
I prefer
And yeah, Phyllis owns us, which makes us dislike his trash talking butt even more... It surely doesn't help that Cutler's worst games were against the Chargers, but all in all it is building up to what I hope is one hell of a battle next year. I am hoping that the Chargers start off the season well, with some of their momentum from the end of this season, since that should raise the level of play throughout the division. AFC Worst has left a really bad taste in my mouth, so bad that I am actually hoping that the Faders can get it together.
And regarding Phyllis' stake in the Broncos (100% ownership), in the long run it is for the best...Cutler shouldn't be GIVEN anything, and earning his team back from a division foe (and a bit of a mouthy one, at that) makes for a great story and a great learning experience. Doesn't mean Cutler will succeed at doing it, but it would be a first step towards the ultimate goal: a championship of his own.
And while we are on the subject of being GIVEN things, I am still a bit miffed about how the Drew Brees situation played out in SD... Is that really the best you guys could do by him?? I mean, Phyllis had done a little less than nada up to that point, didn't Brees deserve a chance to show that the injury wasn't significant?
by Jeremy Bolander on Feb 16, 2008 1:54 AM MST up reply actions
Brees
I'd like to see the Broncos step up next year too, you have a lot of the talent positions nailed down. Hell I'd like to see us both make the playoffs (you as the wildcard of course). :)
by Brian @ Mile High Report on Feb 17, 2008 12:30 AM MST up reply actions
I don't know about Phyllis...
I'll give him, he is a great competitor, and he'll always have a place in an NC State uniform, but he's gotten way too full of himself. I bet him and Merriman are a handful in practice - they used to go at it in college, and I bet that neither of them would back down now.
Merriman & Rivers
The funny thing is I think they tend to really get on. When the media is down on either the other speaks up. They're similar players down deep, lots of skill and a lot of hotdog in both of them.
by Brian @ Mile High Report on Feb 17, 2008 12:34 AM MST up reply actions
I dunno
I can't say Russell is better; but he has unreal potential.
by Brian @ Mile High Report on Feb 15, 2008 10:28 PM MST reply actions
You're right
All in all we have a promising young division pulling itself together with three promising young QBs, maybe four if KC can just get its crap together:
Phyllis Rivers: Gets under the skin. Doesn't do his team any favors when it comes to 'rematches.' Tough. Competitor. Doesn't make all the throws, but showed late in '07 that anything can change, making some amazing toss and grabs. Has the help of a great defense and an elite RB. Gained The Missing Piece (chambers) in 07, that just might make the biggest difference to his offense. Has all the tools, and not a lot of pressure on him. Excellent potential.
Jay Cutler: Cooler than a penguin on ice. Has the ACTUAL laser-rocket arm hinted at in commercials. Under a ton of pressure to salvage the Broncos before they go tits up for 5 ignominious years. Has glimmers of a helpful defense but zero stability on that side of the ball to help him out. Already has several game-winning 4th quarter drives for the Broncs. Hasn't yet developed a good 'pocket sense.' Has a 'telepathic bond' with Scheffler, his draftmate. Meets Shanahan's demands for studiousness and drive. Far too many mistakes early in his career, but lessening even as we speak. Good potential, but if he falls, the Broncos fall with him at this point...
Jamarcus Russel: Best pure athlete in the group. Powerful, amazing throwing arm. Not the sharpest tool in the shed, but humble and diligent to this point in his NFL career. Seems to be focused. Has no receivers of note, though he has a few receivers that SHOULD be better. No O-line protection, though he has linemen who SHOULD be better. Defense was supposed to be elite, but had a dissapointing 2007, though they SHOULD be better. Kiff-i-n's coaching staff was incomplete in 2007 but looks to be coming together for 2008, though some of his decisions (not playing Russell sooner, not even activating Michael Bush) SHOULD have been better. (See a trend??) Ownership is as volatile as a dumptruck driving through a nitroglycerin plant. Russel has all the tools and the right attitude to be successful in the NFL, but has the worst riskiest environment within which to grow and reach his potential.
Should be exciting in the AFC West.
by Jeremy Bolander on Feb 16, 2008 2:42 AM MST up reply actions
I think you are right
The one thing that I disagreed with you about is JaMarcus' intelligence. Even though you said it politely (though another poster didn't), that is still a criticism. JaMarcus scored a 24 on the Wonderlic test, which is at least average (Cutler scored a 26 if you didn't know). If you did know his score, then thats fine - I just hope you weren't judging him by appearance.
The main article's comparison of NFL stats is ridiculous considering Russell has only 1 start. Then comparing Russell's 3 years of college against Cutler's 4. Then also saying that Cutler is clearly the more athletic quarterback based on the rushing stats (JR isn't a rushing QB by any means - just look at him).
To Zapparulez, I would be happy to argue with you if you want. I also love to argue.
by TheSnacks on Feb 16, 2008 12:34 PM MST up reply actions
Question
Based on your third paragraph, isn't it less reasonable for Saint to have written an article in which he makes favorable comparisons of JM over Cutler? I think Saint opened that can of worms, and all Guru did was reply with the only objective materials (stats) that are available. In the absence of comparable stats, Saint probably shouldn't have brought the issue up. By bringing it up he seemed to open the matter up to review.
By the way, I admire Saint's stuff and your class in how you have answered the issue. If people around here are a little touchy it's because we had a raider troll not too long ago that was all insults and threats and no facts. You and Saint go a long ways towards repairing that rift (if not the rivalry).
by Steve Nichols on Feb 16, 2008 2:36 PM MST up reply actions
Can a QB be too smart?
http://sportsyenta.blogspot.com/2007/02/bring-on-annual-wonderlic-fun.html
I was talking to a friend the other day and we were wondering if a quarterback can be too smart (though strictly speaking the Wonderlic isn't an iq test). They clearly have to have something upstairs, but if they take in too many variables, or over-think a pressure situation, does it keep them from being their best?
by Brian @ Mile High Report on Feb 17, 2008 12:46 AM MST up reply actions
Hey...
Each QB is a good fit for their organization
As all of us Broncos fans know, Cutler has the ideal skill set for the WC offense. His mobility, ability to throw on the run and the arm strength that keeps Defenses from crowding the line against run happy Denver make him one of the best fits amongst all the QBs in the NFL for Denver. His 4th quarter leadership and quick learning curve have been impressive.
The biggest question is not the respective skills and potential of Russell and Cutler, but rather the organizational skills of the front offices. Both QBs will continue to need to have complimentary players added to their rosters, this will determine the success of each team and each of the QBs. Will be a very interesting process to watch over the next several years.
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